Rayco C140 issue

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Dec 31, 2014

my rayco currently won't start and it continually displays the 'seatbelt' light on the panel. i've tried bypassing each of the three safety switches (lap bar, seat pressure switch, and seatbelt). i've disconnected my main wiring harness connectors and inspected for any possible bad connections. previously it also gave me this problem intermittently while running. it would just turn off flow to the head and then the light would go out and i could then resume. there is also a possible related issue of the drum turning very slowly even when disengaged. i disconnected the cable at the pump and let the arm 'zero' itself, but there still seems to be a little bit of hydraulic fluid getting sent to the head.

i just picked this machine up and expected to do some work on it, as there are some other small issues, but this one has me stumped. any ideas??

tonyoz · Dec 31, 2014

Each of wires for the seatbelt, seat pressure switch and lap bar have to connected. Just a short wire from one side of the plug to the other is suffice. If it still has the Eaton cutter pump there is also a pressure switch in the same circuit on the top of the pump. Now the rotor turning on it's own can be fixed by adjusting the cable outer where it sits in the bracket in front of exhaust. You have to be careful not to over adjust or the pump will got into reverse and backflush the filter. Don't have the engine to hot or you get sizzling skin.

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Dec 31, 2014

I've tried the jumper wires on the ones in the cab. Only my seat pressure switch has a plug so I just used a splice connector on the others. I can't remember if it's an Eaton, but it does have a two wire plug coming off towards the top. Would a jumper wire work on that one to test?

tonyoz · Dec 31, 2014

Yes, it's on the same circuit. If any one of the pressure switches fail then the engine won't start

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Dec 31, 2014

Thanks for the help! Closed out 2014 working on a machine, opening 2015 working on a machine. This is the business we chose. I'll keep you posted.

tonyoz · Dec 31, 2014

All the pressure switches are in the same circuit and while the light is on the engine won't start. Also if the light comes on while operating then it will cut all the hydraulics. The wires without plugs need to be cut and joined together.

tonyoz · Dec 31, 2014

ALittleDirtWontHurt said:
Thanks for the help! Closed out 2014 working on a machine, opening 2015 working on a machine. This is the business we chose. I'll keep you posted.

Welcome to the club

yellowdogsvc · Jan 1, 2015

Did you wash that machine or could water have gotten into the connectors? We had a similar problem with a Bobcat years ago. Whenever it would rain, we would get a fault and on another machine the moisture caused the bics harness to malfunction meaning you couldn't move the machine. After we found it, we dried them out and sealed them up better.

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 1, 2015

yellowdog, i considered the possibility of water getting in somewhere but so far haven't been able to find any evidence of it. have yet to rule it out though.

tony, i tried putting a jumper on that plug going into the top of the hydro pump...so far no luck.

i have noticed a pattern now. for the last three days I can get it to start and function normally in the morning, but after running maybe an hour so, it'll start intermittently and then finally to the point that it won't work at all....the seatbelt light at that point just stays lit and machine won't start. at the end of the day i'll go back to the machine once it's completely cold and the seatbelt light is off and it will start.

tonyoz · Jan 1, 2015

Sounds like at least one of the pressure switches is faulty. They need a current through them to make the light go out. Have you disconnected all the wires off the switches at the same time, jumped them and worked the machine? I have a electrical systematic I can email you if required.

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 1, 2015

tonyoz said:
Sounds like at least one of the pressure switches is faulty. They need a current through them to make the light go out. Have you disconnected all the wires off the switches at the same time, jumped them and worked the machine? I have a electrical systematic I can email you if required.

I bypassed the seatbelt switch altogether and verified the seat pressure switch and lap bar are ok. I was hopeful a jumper on the connector off of the top of the pump would do it but no luck. The timing seems weird to me that it will start to work again after sitting for a while. My Terex did almost exactly the same thing last year and they ended up having to replace the entire ecu (thankfully under warranty at the time).

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 2, 2015

Another day, same result. But now it is definitely a pattern. It runs for a bit (hour or so), quits, and won't unlock until cooled down well later (or the next day). When it first happens the seatbelt light will blink and I can hear a corresponding 'click' up under the seat (where the valve block is). My thinking is maybe is solenoid related??? Seems to me once it gets up to full operating temperature and runs for a bit, maybe the solenoid is failing once hot??? I talked to the guys at Rayco and they say that a solenoid could be responsible. They also suggested the possibility of the ECU being bad.

cat 297c · Jan 3, 2015

ALittleDirtWontHurt said:
Another day, same result. But now it is definitely a pattern. It runs for a bit (hour or so), quits, and won't unlock until cooled down well later (or the next day). When it first happens the seatbelt light will blink and I can hear a corresponding 'click' up under the seat (where the valve block is). My thinking is maybe is solenoid related??? Seems to me once it gets up to full operating temperature and runs for a bit, maybe the solenoid is failing once hot??? I talked to the guys at Rayco and they say that a solenoid could be responsible. They also suggested the possibility of the ECU
being bad.

I had the same problem with my 140 it was the ecu

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 3, 2015

cat 297c said:
I had the same problem with my 140 it was the ecu

if that's the culprit at least it's a 5 minute swap

tonyoz · Jan 3, 2015

ALittleDirtWontHurt said:
if that's the culprit at least it's a 5 minute swap

And if you can find a good computer tech it can be repaired and kept as a spare.

APSmulching · Jan 4, 2015

I was having a some electrical problems with my 140. It was shutting down and wouldn't always restart. If I let it sit for an hour or so it would restart and run fine for a bit and happen again. Before that it was giving me different fault codes that checked out ok. The injector pump was also missing and I'd get a code 74 when it shut down. I found out that on the back of the engine ECM there are two metal pads that ground to the bracket. I cleaned up that surface and added some di-electric grease it got a lot better. Then I put a c clamp to clamp the bracket to the metal pad on the ECM and it seemed to cure my problems. I'm not sure why this happened, and why this ground was not making contact anymore. The only problem I'm still having now is I get a code 68 (de-rate fuel) and the engine won't make good power. This usually happens a few times in a day on average. I'd love to figure out these gremlins. I really like the 140's but they are challenging sometimes.

tonyoz · Jan 4, 2015

ALittleDirtWontHurt, When the hydraulics cut out, what does the engine do? Maintain RPM's, Go to idle or stop.

APSmulching, I was talking to the local JD service manager the other day and he recommended taking out the sensor in the primary fuel filter and cleaning it with electrical contact cleaner. Make sure you disconnect it wires that the plug first. If that does not work then replace the sensor. Hope this helps

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 4, 2015

tonyoz said:
ALittleDirtWontHurt, When the hydraulics cut out, what does the engine do? Maintain RPM's, Go to idle or stop.

APSmulching, I was talking to the local JD service manager the other day and he recommended taking out the sensor in the primary fuel filter and cleaning it with electrical contact cleaner. Make sure you disconnect it wires that the plug first. If that does not work then replace the sensor. Hope this helps

I'll have to check that fuel filter sensor. Here's what I've got.....when I bought it I noticed that they had bypassed the water separator and run a line going directly into the primer and into another water separator (in place of where the fuel filter is supposed to be. I was assuming that was a separate issue (and something that needs to be corrected right away!), but now I'll have to look a little closer into it. If already running, the engine will maintain RPMs if they hydraulics cut out with the seatbelt light and otherwise seems to run fine. I did notice however, that the machine will stall out very easily and cut everything immediately (including engine) if it sucks in a bundle of limbs too fast. I don't know if that's normal for this machine or not. On any of my other units that is definitely not the case.

ALittleDirtWontHurt · Jan 4, 2015

Also, right before I took delivery of the machine they welded the frame where the cab mount meets at the top which was creating a fuel leak. Leak is taken care of, but it sure didn't look like the ECU wire bundles were disconnected prior to the weld.

I'm not getting any codes whatsoever on the display and the engine seems to run well.

APSmulching · Jan 4, 2015

tonyoz said:
ALittleDirtWontHurt, When the hydraulics cut out, what does the engine do? Maintain RPM's, Go to idle or stop. APSmulching, I was talking to the local JD service manager the other day and he recommended taking out the sensor in the primary fuel filter and cleaning it with electrical contact cleaner. Make sure you disconnect it wires that the plug first. If that does not work then replace the sensor. Hope this helps

Thanks Tony, I'll try that