Rear PTO hitch very slow, weak post maintenance

[jline24]

I failed to mention there is a 3rd hydraulic hookup on the right for an optional attachment. not sure if that would be in play

 

[rScotty]

I failed to mention there is a 3rd hydraulic hookup on the right for an optional attachment. not sure if that would be in play

I agree with Lou. It sounds like a hose connected wrong. Sometimes all they need is to be taken off and reconnected. The valve inside the hose end can stick.

If you can igure out how the photo attachment works here on TBN, it would help us to see a few photos of the control valve and hoses?

What do you figure that (P, T, C) mean... and where does each one go ?
Normally what I see are 7 connections: P or IN, (OUT, R orT), PB, and 4 on top marked to go to the cylinders.

All of these small tractors with a loader and 3pt are plumbed very nearly the same.

 

[jline24]

Just went to RK and looked at a new RK24H and the hoses are correct on my tractor. I did notice the PTO lift lever on the new has much more spring than mine. mine doesn't have the same resistance. could a valve be stuck open?

 

[rScotty]

Well, I just can't seem to figure it out. hoses look right (P, T, C). But I can't find any diagrams that really give good detail. I'm going to go to Rural King tomorrow and look at the 24Hs they have sitting out. Maybe that will help. Could it be low fluid? I put fluid in until it was right level in the middle of the little check window. Ran it for a bit yesterday and the level went down and I don't even see it.

It is common for the fluid level to go down when the tractor warms up...even if you didn't touch any hydraulics at all. Just warming up will cause the fluid level to go down. If it is in the middle or above in the bubble when cold, it is OK.

I failed to mention there is a 3rd hydraulic hookup on the right for an optional attachment. not sure if that would be in play

Then there will be a lever, knob, or solenoid switch, or some sort of control to select that the hydraulic pressure goes to either that 3rd hydraulic hookup or to the 3pt lift arms. They can't both get pressure to work at the same time. You need to find that lever or switch and make sure it is set for powering the 3pt lift arms.

It may be that knob on the box where the hoses connect.
It is NOT the flow control under the front of the seat. That one controls how fast the lift arms free fall.

Just went to RK and looked at a new RK24H and the hoses are correct on my tractor. I did notice the PTO lift lever on the new has much more spring than mine. mine doesn't have the same resistance. could a valve be stuck open?

It could be a stuck 3pt valve, but very unlikely.
I think it is time to repeat Lou's test from last Sunday.

1. Curl the loader bucket and raise it as high as it will go. Now let go of the loader control and leave the curled bucket up there in the air with the motor running.
2. Don't do anything with the loader bucket, just reach over and work the control to raise the 3rd point lift arms...what happens to the 3pt lift arms?
3. Now.... while you are still holding the 3pt control to try to lift them and motor still running, uncurl the loader bucket and lower the bucket to the ground. What happens to the lift arms while you lowered the loader bucket?
4. Repeat #3 with the motor off. Anything much different or is it much the same but slower?
Luck,
rScotty

 

[jline24]

OK, just ran the test.

#1-2 with tractor on, raised FEL all the way up and curled bucket left at that position. When trying to raise PTO hitch nothing happens.

#3 While holding PTO in lift position, uncurling bucket did nothing but lowering the FEL while hold hitch lever at raise the arms came up at what looked like normal speed.

#4 with tractor off, bucket raised and curled holding the hitch in the raise position - lowered bucket arms went up at the FEL was falling and then went down. I could hear fluid in the rear of the tractor as it lowered

double checked hoses and fluid level. no leaks. I'm stumped. Also checked hitch lever and it still has more spring than I thought.

thanks

 

[rScotty]

OK, just ran the test.

#1-2 with tractor on, raised FEL all the way up and curled bucket left at that position. When trying to raise PTO hitch nothing happens.

#3 While holding PTO in lift position, uncurling bucket did nothing but lowering the FEL while hold hitch lever at raise the arms came up at what looked like normal speed.

#4 with tractor off, bucket raised and curled holding the hitch in the raise position - lowered bucket arms went up at the FEL was falling and then went down. I could hear fluid in the rear of the tractor as it lowered

double checked hoses and fluid level. no leaks. I'm stumped. Also checked hitch lever and it still has more spring than I thought.

thanks

Thanks for doing that.

I'm going to assume that you have that knob underneath where the lines connect turned all the way Clockwise ...which is pointed up just as this old thread says:

Valve Control on Hydraulics RK24

I too appreciate the clarification. Not to confuse the issue, but with a grapple and third function kit on order can one assume that nothing changes when the grapple is installed? That is, the switch works the same as with the FEL? Yes, same position.

www.tractorbynet.com

Not that that knob matters to the 3pt. It works the same either way,

There's not much doubt about what is going on. It is some version of what Lou said Sunday morning - something is crossed up at the FEL control. It could be the lines, or it could be inside the loader control. We do know it's not the knob at the box, and its not the flow control under the seat, and It's not the 4 hoses going forward to the loader arm and bucket cylinders. That only leaves three hoses, and you tell me what they are labeled - either: IN, PB, and R.... or else IN, PB, and T.

Something is wrong with those three hoses.

But first lets take a wild swing. Is there anyn chance that you unscrewed that PB port quick connect on the FEL loader control? There is a simple loose brass sleeve like a child size thimble inside that port that may have fallen out or gotten rotated. That would cause all these syptoms.

Dinner time.
rScotty








One more thing.

 

[jline24]

Thanks for the response...

When I first looked at the knob before I touched anything (after seeing the issue) it was 2/3 to the right (FEL). I have tried turning it all the way to the right and left and eventually put it back where it was I did the same with the knob under the seat. Probably just introducing more variables.

In the pics, on the control stick I see a P at the bottom, B1 and B2 and then what looks like C and T at the top.

Thanks for doing that.

I'm going to assume that you have that knob underneath where the lines connect turned all the way Clockwise ...which is pointed up just as this old thread says:

Valve Control on Hydraulics RK24

I too appreciate the clarification. Not to confuse the issue, but with a grapple and third function kit on order can one assume that nothing changes when the grapple is installed? That is, the switch works the same as with the FEL? Yes, same position.

www.tractorbynet.com

Not that that knob matters to the 3pt. It works the same either way,

There's not much doubt about what is going on. It is some version of what Lou said Sunday morning - something is crossed up at the FEL control. It could be the lines, or it could be inside the loader control. We do know it's not the knob at the box, and its not the flow control under the seat, and It's not the 4 hoses going forward to the loader arm and bucket cylinders. That only leaves three hoses, and you tell me what they are labeled - either: IN, PB, and R.... or else IN, PB, and T.

Something is wrong with those three hoses.

But first lets take a wild swing. Is there anyn chance that you unscrewed that PB port quick connect on the FEL loader control? There is a simple loose brass sleeve like a child size thimble inside that port that may have fallen out or gotten rotated. That would cause all these syptoms.

Dinner time.
rScotty








One more thing.

Thanks for the response...

When I first looked at the knob before I touched anything (after seeing the issue) it was 2/3 to the right (FEL). I have tried turning it all the way to the right and left and eventually put it back where it was I did the same with the knob under the seat. Probably just introducing more variables.

In the pics, on the control stick I see a P at the bottom, B1 and B2 and then what looks like C and T at the top.

I'm not sure what you mean about the quick connect. I did take off a couple of the quick connects from the elbows when I had the FEL control stick box on my workbench but don't remember seeing anything fall out. Then again my bench is a bit of a mess. I popped the 4 middle hoses off the quick connects, removed the top 2 and 1 bottom hose and took it my bench to replace the little silver box the stick screws into then put it all back on. didn't start it while it was apart.

I talked to the local RK tractor guy and he gave a few suggestions and then basically told me he didn't know. Little frustrating.

if I do the bucket method (you guys had me do) and get the arms up, let go of the hitch lever I can stand on the arms and they hold. I'm a 280lb guy. If I stand on them and pull the lever to raise they fall under my weight.

maybe the pics will help? I did notice one of the pistons for the FEL loader stick sticks a bit but the bucket operates fine raise, curl, ect. No issues with trans or steering, seem to be fine and strong.

Hopefully I make sense with all this stuff

 

[jline24]

I just realized something and I have to apologize I bought a replacement controller on amazon but the power beyond fitting didn't fit I was in a rush and cut the tip off to "make" it fit it was an o ring that no longer exists. would that be the issue?

 

[ptsg]

There is your issue. This would cause the same symptom of reversing the Tank and Power beyond hoses.

The Power beyond sleeve is specific to the valve brand. They don't interchange with other valves. You need to get the right sleeve for your new valve.

 

[rScotty]

I just realized something and I have to apologize I bought a replacement controller on amazon but the power beyond fitting didn't fit I was in a rush and cut the tip off to "make" it fit it was an o ring that no longer exists. would that be the issue?View attachment 873990

Yep. That's the problem!

I'm glad I mentioned that PB sleeve and hope that is what joggled your memory. When that sleeve is intact - and not hacksawed off !! - , the sleeve fits into the Power Beyond port of the control valve assembly and diverts a high pressure flow back to operate the 3pt hitch lift.
By cutting the end off, you diverted all of the pressure directly into the return hose.
It was exactly as though the PB and Return hoses had been reversed.

The question is what do we want to do about it?
DId you buy a complete controller to replace the old one? If so, can you get a power beyond sleeve for it? The sleevers are very specific to each control valve set as you found out.
The old style comtrol valve assemblies with two levers don't have the extra monkey motion and the associated problems of single stick controllers. Also they are half the price.

rScotty