Rear Remotes for a front grapple?

[2Buckslake]

I have a new grapple on order and would like to get the hydraulics figured out before I install it, so I have some questions. I have an 06 TC45DA NH tractor with one set of rear factory remotes. Has anyone tried to remove the original fittings from the valve body that the original steel lines attach to and replace with some kind of tee type fitting, so that I can run lines up to the front, in addition to hooking back up the original steel remote lines to the rear as they are now? I think that the fittings are a JIC type with O-ring that go into the valve body now. I have even thought about going the electric over hydraulic setup hooked into the curl circuit, but its hard to justify the added cost, since I already have the rear remotes. Those hoses would be really long to just hook into the rear remotes as they are now, plus they would have to be routed just right so that the 3 pt. wouldn't hit them if it was raised and lowered. Anyone have pics with hoses of a TC45DA with hoses hooked to the rear remotes running up front? I also have seen the WR Long electric valve setup, but its a bit pricey. If I go the elec/hyd setup, what kind of dirverter valve would I need? I saw where one of the members put a push button switch in the existing NH joystick, and that might be a good way also. Ideas?

 

[ovrszd]

Good luck with this project. I'm curious to see the solution to teeing the steel lines. For example, if you install a steel tee to the valve body, isn't the existing steel lines going to then be too long???

I like this solution better than plugging into the rear remotes. The only conflict will be that you can't have a front attachment plugged in and use the rear remotes at the same time. You have no way to control the divertion of fluid/pressure.

I agree you can save a lot of money this way. Good luck and post pics once you figure it out!!!

 

[/pine]

The only line you can Tee is the return...

Does the valve that controls the remote have a Power Beyond port?

A JIC fitting is a flare...if it has an o-ring it is SAE/ORB...

 

[2Buckslake]

The only line you can Tee is the return...

Does the valve that controls the remote have a Power Beyond port?

A JIC fitting is a flare...if it has an o-ring it is SAE/ORB...

I'm not sure if the valve that controls the remotes has a power beyond port. I may be mistaken about the terminology as to the fittings, but I think they're O-ring. These two lines go directly to the remotes. I don't see how teeing them would be any different than hooking in to the remotes. What would be the difference if I took off those two lines, turned the fittings around to face forward, and hooked up the hoses for the grapple to them? I'm just talking about teeing them off those two fittings. Now, I understand if I did that I couldn't use the rear remotes and the lines going to the front at the same time, I'm just wanting to cut down on hose length, and not have them be in the way of the 3pt. arms.

 

[ovrszd]

Pine misunderstood your intent. You can tee those lines without problem. If you can find the appropriate fittings.

My Brother's Kubota uses rubber hydraulic hoses to run from the valve to his rear remotes. In his case it's easy to cut and tee the hoses. In your case it's more difficult because of the steel lines.

Something you might check into. There may be a way to cut the steel lines and put a tee in the middle of them somewhere?? Just brainstorming here, not sure it's possible.

 

[J_J]

If you have remote valve installed, then just plug in the grapple to the work ports and control the grapple with the remote lever.

I don't understand all the confusion.

You don't have to cut any lines.

This should be your flow path. Pump to FEL, to remote, to 3pt, to tank.

All valves should be in series, as fluid is flowing all the time.

Two long hoses is the cheapest way to go.

You could do the selector/diverter valve off the curl circuit.

You could also install the 3rd function after the FEL for grapple control.

 

[blueriver]

JJ's right and then just unplug them if you want to use something other than the grapple

 

[ovrszd]

I think his concern is the routing of the hoses plugged into his work ports to clear the 3pt going forward.

To stay with his question JJ, there isn't any problem with splicing T's into the lines running from his rear remote valve to the rear work plugs and running a pair of lines to a second location is there??

 

[Woody65]

I also have a single set of rear remotes like your setup. I just plug my hoses that run to the front of the tractor in when I have my grapple hooked up and utilize the dedicated valve/lever for the rear remote to operate the grapple. lift and curl functions remain the same as on the FEL stick. Similar to what JJ stated.

 

[/pine]

I have a new grapple on order and would like to get the hydraulics figured out before I install it, so I have some questions. I have an 06 TC45DA NH tractor with one set of rear factory remotes. Has anyone tried to remove the original fittings from the valve body that the original steel lines attach to and replace with some kind of tee type fitting, so that I can run lines up to the front, in addition to hooking back up the original steel remote lines to the rear as they are now? I think that the fittings are a JIC type with O-ring that go into the valve body now. I have even thought about going the electric over hydraulic setup hooked into the curl circuit, but its hard to justify the added cost, since I already have the rear remotes. Those hoses would be really long to just hook into the rear remotes as they are now, plus they would have to be routed just right so that the 3 pt. wouldn't hit them if it was raised and lowered. Anyone have pics with hoses of a TC45DA with hoses hooked to the rear remotes running up front? I also have seen the WR Long electric valve setup, but its a bit pricey. If I go the elec/hyd setup, what kind of dirverter valve would I need? I saw where one of the members put a push button switch in the existing NH joystick, and that might be a good way also. Ideas?

This was what was throwing me...when the OP said "steel lines" I am thinking pressure and return (servicing the valve)...you can't tee the pressure line going into the valve...
...Now "teeing" the working ports of the valve (which I assume the QD's are attached to) should be OK with an additional set of QD's (on the extension) as long as only one set was being used at a time...

If there is room...my suggestion is to run new hard lines forward with QD's on both ends...when the grapple is needed use two short "jumper" hoses to connect the existing remotes to the (rear) Qd's on the new hard lines...or just use hoses...not as clean looking as hard lines though...

 

[2Buckslake]

Thanks for all the replies from everyone. JJ, I'm not really confused too much, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go cost wise. That's going to be some mighty long hoses going from the rear to the front. The grapple will be supplied with 5ft. hoses to start with, and I can have them made longer, if I choose to. On the right side of the loader arm the hydraulic hoses are in an "S" pattern so that when you raise the loader to full height there is enough hose for the height that the loader can go up to. I'm assuming I'll have to do that on the left side as well, if I go that route. I guess I'm going to have to get some pricing on getting hyd. hoses made to the length that I will need vs. tapping in to the curl circuit or the power beyond line for a 3rd function.

 

[ovrszd]

Another consideration is whether you ever remove the FEL?? If you do, then you are going to need a pair of QD's somewhere near the point the FEL separates from the tractor. Similar to how the FEL is plumbed now. You also need QDs at the front of the FEL frame, near the QA. Then the 5' hoses on the Grapple will couple to those two QDs. Even it you place the two QDs at the front of the FEL frame as close to the QA as possible those 5' hoses won't be any too long. It takes a LOT of hose length in that area to allow you to curl the Grapple completely forward. In my situation those two hoses are long enough to almost loop down and touch the ground when the Grapple is sitting flat on the ground. When curled forward they are near tight.

So, if you use your existing rear QDs and run two hoses forward, adding QDs at the FEL/tractor separation point and another pair of QDs at the front, you will need a total of three pairs of QDs plus two pairs of hoses with male threaded connectors on each end.

You'll be surprised how much money you'll spend doing that. Then any other methods you use will add more cost. Equipping a tractor for this feature is not cheap.

 

[2Buckslake]

I have also thought about all those QD's for the grapple location hookup, and also at the loader frame upright, plus what would be needed at the rear remotes. Or, I could full length hoses from front to rear. I called surplus center and a valve just to hook into the curl circuit would be $310 for just the valve. He asked me if the fittings on my hoses for the curl circuit were sae12. I looked at my loader last night, and they are an "O-ring" style fitting for the all the lines where rubber lines meet steel lines, but I don't know what size they are. The end of the rubber line is male threads on the rubber hose, and it is a female steel nut on the steel lines that run along side the loader arm. Can anyone tell me the size of those fittings? I have the standard 16LA NH loader. This would probably an easier install, although I would have to make up lines for the diverter valve. So, the price may be a wash anyway. Yes, ovrszd, this is looking like another sizeable cost for the plumbing, and I'm starting to lean more towards the diverter setup, just for the cleaner install and the option of using my joystick to work the grapple. Thanks for your comments...

Another consideration is whether you ever remove the FEL?? If you do, then you are going to need a pair of QD's somewhere near the point the FEL separates from the tractor. Similar to how the FEL is plumbed now. You also need QDs at the front of the FEL frame, near the QA. Then the 5' hoses on the Grapple will couple to those two QDs. Even it you place the two QDs at the front of the FEL frame as close to the QA as possible those 5' hoses won't be any too long. It takes a LOT of hose length in that area to allow you to curl the Grapple completely forward. In my situation those two hoses are long enough to almost loop down and touch the ground when the Grapple is sitting flat on the ground. When curled forward they are near tight.

So, if you use your existing rear QDs and run two hoses forward, adding QDs at the FEL/tractor separation point and another pair of QDs at the front, you will need a total of three pairs of QDs plus two pairs of hoses with male threaded connectors on each end.

You'll be surprised how much money you'll spend doing that. Then any other methods you use will add more cost. Equipping a tractor for this feature is not cheap.

 

[J_J]

Here is a selector/diverter valve from Baileynet.com

Stackable Solenoid Operated Circuit Selector Valve | Type SAE 8 SELECTOR VALVE SOL OPT SAE 8 220-934

Add switch to the joystick handle, some short hoses, and fittings and you are done.

 

[/pine]

Here is a link that will help you size the SAE (o-ring boss) fittings...it's nice to have a vernier caliper on hand..
http://www.surpluscenter.com/images/techhelp/SAE.pdf

SC has other tech help Surplus Center

 

[k0ua]

I spent $150 total two 90 degree fittings and two 6 foot hoses and two 10 foot hoses to go from the location under the tractor where all of the OEM hoses attach to the loader valve. And of course all of the male and female quick connects. I made a simple L bracket for the torque tube. I can easily remove the loader by unplugging the two QCs in the middle. It all works well.

 

[RINGPOWERTALLY]

most of the CNH stuff is all ORF style connections and ORB adapters on there pumps and valve bodys.

 

[2Buckslake]

J_J This is the diverter valve that SC. recommended. It is a 9-7738-A,with SAE12 ports. It has 2 solenoids, which get hooked together in parallel. When you press the button, one circuit opens, the other closes. Is the one you suggested act the same way, with the exception that it has SAE 8 ports? The tech from SC said I would take the two existing lines feeding the curl circuit and hook into this valve, then take two hoses for each operation and hook to the remaining 4 ports. Is this the way the one from bailey operates? It's quite a bit cheaper than the one from SC. I have to wonder about quality when there is that much of a difference in price. /Pine, thanks for the link for fitting sizes. Thanks for your replies! I guess some hyd. mfg's. all have different pricing and products.

Here is a selector/diverter valve from Baileynet.com

Stackable Solenoid Operated Circuit Selector Valve | Type SAE 8 SELECTOR VALVE SOL OPT SAE 8 220-934

Add switch to the joystick handle, some short hoses, and fittings and you are done.

 

[matoyan]

Here is a selector/diverter valve from Baileynet.com

Stackable Solenoid Operated Circuit Selector Valve | Type SAE 8 SELECTOR VALVE SOL OPT SAE 8 220-934

Add switch to the joystick handle, some short hoses, and fittings and you are done.

Hi J_J, can I use this instead of 3rd function auxiliary or is this a 3rd function? I wanted to get a grapple and I don't have rear remotes. I wanted to tap into my power beyond and then into the solenoid and then out?

 

[J_J]

J_J This is the diverter valve that SC. recommended. It is a 9-7738-A,with SAE12 ports. It has 2 solenoids, which get hooked together in parallel. When you press the button, one circuit opens, the other closes. Is the one you suggested act the same way, with the exception that it has SAE 8 ports? The tech from SC said I would take the two existing lines feeding the curl circuit and hook into this valve, then take two hoses for each operation and hook to the remaining 4 ports. Is this the way the one from bailey operates? It's quite a bit cheaper than the one from SC. I have to wonder about quality when there is that much of a difference in price. /Pine, thanks for the link for fitting sizes. Thanks for your replies! I guess some hyd. mfg's. all have different pricing and products.

What is the GPM on your tractor?

Hydraulics:
Pump flow: 9.8 gpm [37.1 lpm]
Total flow: 14.9 gpm [56.4 lpm]
Steering flow: 5.1 gpm [19.3 lpm]


That valve you posted is a 15 GPM valve.

I would use this valve http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...BLE-SELECTOR-VALVE-12-VDC-P15544-1-9-5117.axd

http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/i9-5117.pdf