Refurbishing a Ford 850

[AA7TU]

Here is a shot of my new project. It came with an old JD 127 mower deck, a 3ph road grader blade, and a 3ph log boom, all serviceable. I paid $2500 for the lot, which is about as good as I have found in this area. I didn't have to pay for trucking something else from farther away.

I will be going over this tractor in the winter months, ready to make use of it next year. I am not sure how many hours it has, as the tach is not working. But the engine seems strong, good oil pressure, not overheating, no smoke in the exhaust, instant start. There seemed to be some level of care taken to keep it running, but only the minimum. Today I used it to move some gravel around on the driveway, and the loader seems to be strong enough. Mainly it just needs some small repairs, TLC, cleaning and painting. I prefer a clean machine.

Here is a list of what I am planning, and I would appreciate any advice on how to best proceed:

1. Change all the fluids. From my reading it looks like I will use UTF for everything, and some generic motor oil. I won't use it in winter (too wet here), and maybe 20-30 hours total a year. Mowing a field once or twice a year, road maintenance, log pulling, blackberry clearing.

2. How to drain the loader oil? I have not seen this style, where the tubes of the framework are also the reservoir. Possibly replace the seals on the rams, if I can find the parts. For now there is only small leakage at the dust seals, and not much sag in use. Some of the hoses appear to be original, which is amazing.

3. How best to drain the rear tires? They are filled with sodium chloride. I might have to replace a rusty rim. The local tire company will do the work, but I have to get it there.

4. It needs a new exhaust. It had an underneath pipe, but I suspect it got ripped off in the brush, and might have the same thing happen again if I push into the blackberries. I would use a vertical pipe, but have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the loader.

5. The engine needs basic tune up. New tachometer. I might convert to 12V system, but the 6V certainly works well enough. Given my low projected number of hours, it might not be worthwhile. It starts instantly, but man it sucks the fuel while running. Maybe that is normal. My previous tractor time was on a smaller nimble Kubota with 4wd and hydrostatic. In comparison, on this thing I feel like Fred Flintstone running a brontosaurus.

6. Replace PTO oil seal, which drips a bit.

7. General de-greasing and de-rusting. Anyone have particularly worthwhile products for that now? I haven't done a project of this size before. I suspect lots of frozen bolts to remove.

8. I'll need some rear weight for loader use, I can tell already. I am sure I can find something suitable in someone's junk pile.

Thanks for any input. I'm sure I will have more questions as the project progresses.

 

[Soundguy]

the loader frames that are the hyd resevoir usually have a pipe plug drain, or in some instances large bung drain with strainer.

For those hyds, you can use cheap utf or cheap aw 32/46 oil. for the tractor, stick with utf.

for the engine, I'd go with 15w40 or 10w30 synthetic. store brand is fine for either.

for degreasing, I like greased lightning, or simple green.

for rear weight, and old plastic tub or 55g drum cut down, with some metal sticking out to hitch to, and fill her with concrete. good cheap weight.

 

[AA7TU]

Dismantling continues here, and so far so good.

I have been searching for any info on rebuilding the cylinder seals in this Superior Utility Loader (it says model K-118), but am not finding anything specific. Perhaps some other manufacturer's more generic kit is close enough? Surely someone has done this before. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Soundguy]

in many cases you can just match the packing ID/OD etc.

I had plenty of vintage cyl's resealed at my local hyds shop.. they always used common off the shelf packing and orings.

 

[AA7TU]

Here is a photo of the seals from the Superior lift cylinder ends, mentioned in the above posts. I have taken the snap ring out. There is one rubber type oil seal, and a stack of 4 fiber (?) washers below it. Does anyone have a good technique to remove that oil seal? No access from the other side to force them out. It looks like some sort of destructive process is needed, but I don't want to ding things up if possible.

 

[fried1765]

Here is a photo of the seals from the Superior lift cylinder ends, mentioned in the above posts. I have taken the snap ring out. There is one rubber type oil seal, and a stack of 4 fiber (?) washers below it. Does anyone have a good technique to remove that oil seal? No access from the other side to force them out. It looks like some sort of destructive process is needed, but I don't want to ding things up if possible.

View attachment 529601

You will need to destroy the old seal, but with care, it should be readily removable.

 

[AA7TU]

I got it all apart with less trouble than expected. I have seen a few posts from time to time from others rebuilding these FEL asking about replacements. Now that I have the parts to measure, for the Superior K-118, I think that these rings will do the job.

Hydraulic cylinder repair seals and kits-Hercules Sealing Products - Hydraulic Seals and replacement cylinders for construction and many other heavy equipment industries.

Have not found the oil wiper part yet, as it is unusual with a beveled edge and a lip.

 

[AA7TU]

For the above bucket curl hydraulics, this will work for the piston seal:
Hydraulic cylinder repair seals and kits-Hercules Sealing Products - Hydraulic Seals and replacement cylinders for construction and many other heavy equipment industries.

 

[Soundguy]

You will need to destroy the old seal, but with care, it should be readily removable.

yup.. hooked seal snatcher usually does it.

 

[AA7TU]

Not being familiar with oil seals, I am not coming across anything in my searches that has this particular shape. Maybe someone more experienced has some cross reference ideas. No numbers or any marks on the seal. Shaft is 1.75", Lip O.D. is 2.375", tapers to 2.25", height is just shy of .375" (no calipers).

 

[Soundguy]

might have to visit a mom n pop hyds shop for a matchup.

 

[AA7TU]

Another mystery to solve, while the machine shop works on the above wiper carrier.

I had the engine running today and was hoping to set the timing using a standard timing light. However, I was not able to see any timing marks on the flywheel. I guessed that cylinder 1 is the most forward. But I ended up trying all the cylinders just out of curiosity. Nothing.

I'll see if I can turn the engine over by hand and maybe get a glimpse of something. Or perhaps rub a pencil in the hole while it is running and see if there is any spot that is abrasive.

Haven't done this before, so looking for any tips. I can't imagine the timing can be so far out and the engine still runs OK, but not show any marks.

 

[Soundguy]

run some chalk on the flywheel, after spraying some carb cleaner in the hole.

1 is indeed at front.

 

[AA7TU]

Thanks, that worked OK. The main problem was that the previous owners had not bothered to set the timing when installing new points, and so it was retarded to the point that the marks were not visible. I got the flywheel cleaned up, and as I set the timing more advanced the engine perked up quite a bit. That may be why it had used such excessive amounts of fuel just dragging its old bones here. I underestimated the levels to which some people will carry benign neglect.

What factors go into the recommended setting of 5 degrees? What is the drawback to going more advanced? I assume that it's about the power curve at some specific RPM (PTO speed?), given that there is no vacuum advance.

 

[Soundguy]

..but it does use a mechanical advance.

You have already seen what retarding too much will do.. mainly poor performance and fuel economy, occasionally backfiring, and possibly overheating.

Hard starting and pinging for too much advance.

 

[AA7TU]

Hopefully my last question for a while, as this project is about complete. On these Superior K-118 loaders, how to determine the fill level? The filler is at the top of the right tube, and I assume that full to the top is not the right idea. As the cylinders are all empty now, it is going to gulp a bunch filling those back up. I also don't see any place where an oil filter or screen of some sort is hiding.

As for the last remaining part, the oil seal/rod wiper on the lifter cylinders is 1.75 X 2.125 X .0187 inches. Such as
Sealsourceinc
These cylinders use aluminum holders that this part fits into (which I showed in my previous post), but one side was fractured and the other a bit rough, so I had the shop make two new ones, and all is good to go.

 

[Soundguy]

I havn't seen what your cyls look like, but DA cyls , once you have the air worked out, won't make the sump level change much from extended to retracted.. just the rod volume. If they are SA cyls, then once you work the air out, you want the sump to be full with cyls retracted. Some loader frames have a strainer in them, some don't.

 

[AA7TU]

These are SA for the loader arms, and DA for the bucket curl. No place for a strainer that I can see on this one. Now just left with converting to 12V, and I can test things out a bit.

Thanks for all the help!

As can be seen, I did not stick to tradition with the paint job, just wanted to use up left overs.

 

[Soundguy]

just noticed that your loader is very similar to my superior utility model loader.

 

[AA7TU]

Mine is the "industrial" model, from the appearance of the frame, but has only the one bucket curl cylinder, like the others:
Loader Model Types (2 pages)