Remodeling Question - Outside Window Removal (not)

[Beltzington]

This isn't tractor related but I know many of you are experienced DIY and/or professional contractors.

I am remodeling our master bathroom and installing a large walk-in shower where the previous owners had a large whirlpool tub. The problem is there is an outside window where the back wall of the new shower will be and since the window is right over the back-deck there is a privacy issue in addition to preventing interior water damage. To complicate matters the outside wall is brick so the window flashing is not accessible without removing brick and if remove the window I will have a large hole I will have to fix.

My question is there any structural or building code issues with just leaving the window installed and framing and tiling over it on the inside shower wall? The widow is single hung thermal pane metal frame in good shape. I'll likely cover it on the outside with a solid pane of stained glass just to disguise the fact the window is not functional and provide some decoration for the deck.

My gut feeling is this a half-xxx way of doing this but the more I think about it the more it makes sense, even if I remove the window, tear out the brick, repair the sheathing, and brick it over it will be obvious as I do not have any of the original matching bricks. Also, this is the first time I have ever actually had the window open to use it as a trash chute.

Does a window have to be a window? What are your thoughts.

 

[boomer1025]

Put one-way window film on the glass.

 

[Beltzington]

Put one-way window film on the glass.

I don't believe the window would be waterproof on the inside and am concerned moisture from the shower would/could into the inside wall?

Am I wrong? I have never seen a window in a shower wall before.

Thanks

 

[EddieWalker]

I've seen the window left in and covered over on the inside on quite a few homes with varying results. Some of them you would have no idea that the window was still there, others developed moisture issues and I was hired to repair the damage. I can't say how yours will turn out over the long term, but odds are good that eventually you will have moisture issues.

Removing the window and installing brick is a really simple and easy thing to do. Finding the matching brick is by far the hardest part of the job. Just do one row of bricks at a time, use a straight edge to make sure that you are keeping the row of bricks in line and level, and take your time.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I don't believe the window would be waterproof on the inside and am concerned moisture from the shower would/could into the inside wall?

Am I wrong? I have never seen a window in a shower wall before.

Thanks

My dad has a window in shower.. Not a good idea.

I would be inclined to leave it, and close it off inside.

 

[LMychajluk]

In the apt I grew up in there was a window in the 'right' wall as you faced the shower head, set into a brick exterior wall. It wasn't centered on the wall, but a bit more than 1/2 way back from the wall with the shower head (in other words, closer to the right wall as you faced the window than the 'left' wall w/ the shower head). The shower was tiled 3/4 of the way up, and the window trim painted w/ a glossy paint w/ caulk or sealant around it. Never had any issues that I know of (and my grandparents owned the building). I would think that as long as you didn't have water constantly spraying the window directly, you should be fine.

 

[ddbackhoe]

This isn't tractor related but I know many of you are experienced DIY and/or professional contractors.

I am remodeling our master bathroom and installing a large walk-in shower where the previous owners had a large whirlpool tub. The problem is there is an outside window where the back wall of the new shower will be and since the window is right over the back-deck there is a privacy issue in addition to preventing interior water damage. To complicate matters the outside wall is brick so the window flashing is not accessible without removing brick and if remove the window I will have a large hole I will have to fix.

My question is there any structural or building code issues with just leaving the window installed and framing and tiling over it on the inside shower wall? The widow is single hung thermal pane metal frame in good shape. I'll likely cover it on the outside with a solid pane of stained glass just to disguise the fact the window is not functional and provide some decoration for the deck.

My gut feeling is this a half-xxx way of doing this but the more I think about it the more it makes sense, even if I remove the window, tear out the brick, repair the sheathing, and brick it over it will be obvious as I do not have any of the original matching bricks. Also, this is the first time I have ever actually had the window open to use it as a trash chute.

Does a window have to be a window? What are your thoughts.

Without seeing your plan, my first thought would be to remove the window (not the frame) and replace it with a few glass bricks/blocks.

Glass Block Photo Gallery :: Accent Building Products
Glass Block Window in Shower - Bing images
Colored Glass Block Wall - Bing images

 

[HCJtractor]

My old house I just restored looks identical to yours. Mine is older, 1930 vintage, with no longer available brick (even a different size, old lime based mortar) making a patch hard to accomplish. I had an identical window, once over a bath, that was converted into a large walk in double shower, all tiled. I removed the entire old window to the framing, (replaced all my other windows also) had one made with all pvc vinyl, with privacy glass. I re-trimmed the outside with PVC trim, and tiled the entire inside with tile so there is no trim exposed. I sloped the inside sill slightly. It look great, outside and inside, adds light to the shower, is extremely private, and maintenance free. I’ll take some pictures tonight and post later. It looks like an identical situation as yours.
In other areas of the house, I had to change window sizes, so did patch the brick. You can see it but it looks pretty good. Most people probably wouldn’t notice.

 

[ddbackhoe]

That would work pretty good too. Look forward to the pics.

 

[Beltzington]

Appreciate the comments everyone -

Eddie - Was the moisture damage due to water getting in from the outside or the result of condensation on the inside?

DDBackhoe - Glass blocks were my original plan until I tore down the drywall yesterday and saw how the window was installed. I had not thought of building a second frame inside the existing frame. That may be a perfect solution, I will need to think on that for a bit. Thanks!

HCJ - I will be looking for your pictures, thanks.

 

[/pine]

Worthy advice already given...On a side note though...
If there is any code enforcement or inspections , plan reviews etc., etc...Some building codes (like SSBC) may require mechanical means (fan of certain CFM) of ventilation in bathrooms without windows of certain sizes...

 

[HCJtractor]

I thought about glass blocks as well. Problem was the sizes didn’t fit precisely into the old brick opening, plus glass blocks didn’t look too good in my old house nor match the other windows in style. I just didn’t like the way they looked. My new window was actually pretty cheap. I had several options of glass to choose from. I got the most private. You cannnot see any “flesh” from the outside, only shadows, so taking a shower is no problem at all. Very private. Tiling the inside was not that big a deal. It’s a good clean look, inside and out, looks pretty normal in my historic bungalow, and never needs paint. Was really pretty easy, especially if you have to place backerboard and tile anyway.

I wouldn’t seal up the old window, nor brick up the opening. I like the fact it maintains the original balance and appearance of the house design, and lets light into a shower.

 

[HCJtractor]

How old is your house?

 

[davedj1]

You can go ahead and frame over the inside like you originally asked about. Just either paint the window black on the inside or attach a piece of plywood painted black to the inside. I've seen it done many times. If you remove the whole window you can re brick the hole but I know that will be a PIA.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie - Was the moisture damage due to water getting in from the outside or the result of condensation on the inside?

Windows are designed to keep weather out from the outside, not from the inside. It is impossible to have a window in a shower and not have water get into the walls. I've had a few clients insist on keeping the window, so I seal up ever edge, everywhere I can find anything that water might get through with exterior clear flashing sealant. Not caulking, not silicone. I have them sign a paper saying that I do not guarantee anything about that window being able to keep out water from the inside. I've also done the glass blocks a few times and that's a lot easier to seal up and still have some light.

Moisture damage is usually visible at the window sill. One of the worse cases that I've seen was a window in a tile shower/bathtub that seemed fine from just looking at it, but once the tile came off and the studs where exposed, it was a massive termite infestation that had eaten away every stud. The tile itself was all that was holding up that wall. Termites love moisture and wood, that's a magnet that will draw them in from miles around. Mostly it's just black mold.

Of the windows that where totally sealed off from the inside so you didn't know they where there. Two where on the second story of the house, and the home owner never knew anything about them, and I never thought to go outside before the job started to see if there was a window behind the tile. One had insulation between the glass and the backer board and it seemed fine. The other was a mess, but I can't say for sure if it was from the shower, condensation or the window itself leaked. There wasn't any major damage, or rot, but there where a lot of bugs, spiderwebs and a nasty smell to it. Another was a fiberglass insert shower that blocked the window on a first floor that was covered by plants so I didn't know it was there on the inside. That window didn't seem to be an problem, but once I saw the window, I had to seal up the opening before I could tile the shower that I was doing. Seems like there was one more, but I'm not remembering it clearly enough to say anything about it.

 

[Stimw]

Once you take the windows out you should be able to destroy the frame and remove it without damaging the bricks.
Then find a brick pattern that you like and make a creative insert in the hole. Call it ART!
Or find a good mason and have them do something creative with the opening.
If you leave the window and it gets broken then what? It will need to be opened to re-glaze it.

 

[MossRoad]

Our first house had a sash window over the long side of the bathtub and there was a shower in there too. If you faced the shower, the window was on your left. The existing tile was plastic and started popping off. It was kind of funny, because you'd take a shower, and hear ping ping ping as they expanded and tink tink tink as they cooled, and CLUNK as they'd fall off once in a while! :laughing:

So we scraped them all off and got some composite tub surround material that looked like tile, but was in sheets. I found outside corners of that same material and used it to trim out the window. So, it overhung the surround by a couple inches with no seams on the outside of the window, like a frame, and I trimmed it to be flush with the lower window sash on the inside of the window. We hung a curtain rod over that window about 4" wider than the window, and bought two matching shower curtains. We cut the 2nd one to fit the window. Worked fine. Never any water problems. You could do the same thing with tile. I also put some frosted plastic film on the inside of the glass so it disguised any shapes and shadows so the neighbors wouldn't get a thrill if they glanced over there.

It was our starter house, and we didn't want to put any money into it, so that's what we did to get by and it worked fine for the 11 years that we were there.

It was nice to be able to open the window when cleaning the bathroom to get some fresh air in there. You could also pull down the top sash several inches if you wanted some air in there while showering.

 

[kthompson]

We installed lexan over window with sealant and then installed shower tub cover over it few years back and so far no sign or moisture issue. Left window in place for same reasons you are considering with brick.

Have seen houses here with false windows where they install "closed" shutters to give the impression of windows and there is no window at all, just impression of window. You might could use this to cover the window area if you can not find suitable bricks. I like the suggestion of looking for something different to installed in the brick wall which may be able to look good or not due to location of window in the outside of the house. Could be a variety of options such as some local design or county map or family name or something like date of build or who built the house. Can a shrub or tree be planted to hide the window area if odd brick are used?

Nothing to me is more noticeable then bricks that do not match.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

New windows glaze from the outside so replacement of a broken one as has been noted before becomes a non-issue. Remove old frame even if you have to saw out the aluminum, install new framing in the brick and a new window with opaque glass. By all means get rid of a window in the shower. I have the same with 2windows but the wall is wood frame so when I remodel I will remove and side over. If you window sill an below is not damaged I would be surprised.

Ron

 

[HCJtractor]

Here are a few pictures of mine, before and after. I enlarged an old bath, added a large tile shower where the widow was. I removed everything down to the framing. Remove an old double hung window. Repaired and made the new framing ideal, coated every wood member with a Red Guard. Can’t remember if I used any pressure treated in vulnerable places. Had a new all vinyl widow made with privacy glass. Installed it, flashed it. Added tile backer board and taped it and sealed it, including a sloped sill. Then added tile, butted up to the vinyl window frame. I suppose the only weak point is this horizontal junction. But I sealed it with a high quality silicone caulk. And it’s easily visible and accessible. The outside was trimmed in PVC trim and of course caulked normally. Note water from the shower heads doesn’t directly hit the window. Of course, splashed water does. But I’m pretty confident it doesn’t leak. I don’t see any difference in danger versus any tiled corner or junction that’s sealed with caulk or grout. Of course the window is fixed, doesn’t move. I believe it will out last me. I can’t imagine what the exterior would look like to just eliminate the window. Plus it lets light into the bath. And is very private. I’ll post some outside pictures tomorrow.
Note outside photo is the old window.