Ryan and all:
This afternoon I was all set to start up another big cut-n-paste job and thought way better of it. We all know that this is a forum where we all really just want to help each other, and I think we also all know how our very human-ness (why couldn't I have been a dog?) can complicate that. We all want to get along, I know we do. I sure do.
This is a great topic - did you know that this is a keen interest of mine? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I want to apologize for reacting/overreacting, and would like it very much if Jerry and Mad would forgive me for that and continue in this thread. I would like this thread to keep going on, in a spirit of healthy exchange, to figure out how we can sort this thing out and maybe help those who want further help to get some useable answers. I also have an idea about getting dealers in on all of this in a mutually beneficial and PROFITABLE fashion. More to come on that.
I really didn't like my last post where I asked for permission to answer, that was not great form and I asked the moderator to delete it, along with Mad's reply that it prompted, for the good of the thread. Thanks moderator.
Mad, Jerry, please come back, we need you! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jerry, I know that you said it was your last post here, but I hope you'll accept my apologies and reconsider. I think I understand why you said that, that you thought it best considering the way this thread was heading, but I'd like it to take a better direction than that. I really think this is a very worthwhile topic and I think we can talk about in in peace.
Ryan, I'm sure going to try to answer every single one of those questions in this and my next post hopefully. If you study the 5030 skidder thread carefully all this will make more sense too. The process is not too bad really, and yours and others' would be even smoother than mine. The learning curve will keep getting flatter and flatter. And no it won't void your warranty, no way Jose.
A hydraulic solenoid valve (I'm going to call it an HSV from now on) has two joined halves. Half of it is an electric solenoid, the other half is the valve body that the hydraulic fluid flows through and in and out of the ports. The ports (1/2" 'll do ya) conduct the fluid in the valve body into the hydraulic hoses that you screw into them using the same type of hose and fittings as you would use with remotes.
The general definition of a solenoid is an electrical component that moves a lever, or moves something, when current is applied to it, 12 volts in this case. A joystick, as I have been referring to it, is just a handle that sends the electric current to the appropriate solenoid through sets of contacts that get closed or opened when you move the joystick in different directions. If you wanted a box blade to come up, you'd push the handle forward. 12 volts would go to the solenoid that's connected to the valve body that the hose going to that cylinder is attached to, and the box blade comes up. When the solenoid receives the 12 volts, a lever opens or closes a valve in the valve body, allowing or not allowing the pressurized (around 2,500 psi) hydraulic fluid to flow throught the port and through the hose. So pushing the joystick forward accomplishes the same as pushing a "remote" lever forward.
OK, that said, I'll try to answer your questions in order:
<font color="blue"> 1. Can you control more than three? </font>
The only limit to how many HSV's you can have is how many do you need and where to locate them. It's wide open. You can have single ones, like the one that operates my front grapple, that is controlled by the rocker switch on my loader handle. My front grapple has only one hydraulic function - open/close. [Any attachment with only one hydraulic function requires just ONE HSV or remote to operate it. Either one would perform BOTH the open and close, or left and right, or up and down, whatever. You don't need one valve to do one direction of the function, and another valve to do the other]. My rear grapple itself has two hydraulic functions - grapple arms open/closed, and lift arms/lower arms. I have a triple bank of Vickers HSV's mounted behind the seat on the ROPS. The four hoses to handle these two functions go into two of the valve bodies on them. The third HSV will control the hydraulic top-link cylinder that I am going to add. The joystick to the right of my seat, where the remote levers would have been, controls (sends current) to one, two, or all three of the HSV's depending on how the joystick is moved in its two axes (clockwise from 9:00 - left, left-forward, forward, forward-right, right, right-rear, rear, rear-left). When its pushed l-r-f or b, one solenoid is energized, moving one cylinder. In the other positions, two are energized at the same time, moving two cylinders. There's a rocker switch on the top of the joystick that will energize the third HSV that will operate the top link cylinder, to give the rear grapple greater range of motion.
But you can put HSV's wherever you want them, in any configuration. A single, double, triple, quad, any combination. And then just send current to them using any type of joystick you want, selected for ergonomics, size, shape, number of buttons, whatever or however you want to control whatever implement. My front loader uses a single. A triple was perfect for the rear grapple, so they joystick I selected has 3 functions too.
<font color="blue">2. Doesn't there still have to be hoses to actuate the hydraulic cylinder, ? Where do these hook into the joystick, </font> You got question 2a right. They're still working on hoseless hydraulics - until that day comes, we're stuck with them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif As for 2b, now you know where they go, and what the joystick does. (Not that! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
<font color="blue"> I like the sounds of having the functionability of the solenoid but still do not completely understand it?
</font> Well you sound like a fine young man with a good inquiring mind, I'll try my best to help you understand it as I continue to learn myself. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<font color="blue">3. Where do you find the proper person to hook this system up? </font>
Dangerous question, but I'll try to handle it well. This was my experience, maybe that will help. When I decided on my rear grapple, before buying my (did I mention my first ever?)tractor (hey behave now /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), I started thinking about how I was actually going to control it. I decided that I did not want to have to throw individual levers to control one function at a time. It would have been a royal pain to close, then lower, then maybe close some more, or open a little, or lift some, all while reaching for different handles. I kinda knew about HSV's, they're on a lot of things. Many front grapples on the tractors here on TBN for instance. Some have diverter valve setups which I do not favor becasue of the extra button pushing and loss of the function that's being diverted away from. I don't know which one is more prevalent.
Shoot, I have to finish this tomorrow. But I found someone all right. I think you can too.
And here's the dealer idea - have Kubota get on board with offering single or dual front HSV's, and double, triple or quad rear HSV's, along with a variety of joysticks, including an optional loader handle with built-in rocker switch, just like on the JD110 TLB. Everybody wins. Food for thought.
Nite all.
