Remotes and Top and Tilt?

texbaylea · Dec 3, 2005

rk246
I have 3 remotes on my L3130 which cost me a little over $1300 when I bought the tractor as they were installed during setup. Plus the additional labor for the dealer is small after the first that way.

Two remotes feed forward for the grapple or the tree shear (rotate and cut). I had one remote tee'd with connectors in the rear for a top link and a tilt link (when I add one). I just have to select whether I use the front or rear connections on that one.

I am glad I got all three /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Vernon

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 3, 2005

Ryan -

Hey, congrats again on the new L3830, nice move. Put that baby on your personal information page, don't be bashful. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I just wanted to encourage anyone thinking about remotes not to forget the option of using hydraulic solenoids and joysticks instead of conventional remotes. Especially when used to operate a front grapple, it's so nice to have a button or rocker switch on a loader joystick that replaces the original. I think this makes using the front grapple much easier than having to reach down for a remote lever. Same with using top-n-tilt I would think. An electrical joystick that would control both cylinders would be a joy, and make it much easier to control and implement as you're moving along, and result in a better, faster job I would think. I have this setup on my tractor and I love it. I have a triple solenoid on the back, and one joystick controls all 3. A rocker switch on the top of the joystick controls the third function, in my case a CCM top link cylinder. (The other two control a rear grapple).

This link shows my setup:

5030 "skidder" pics

And there's more info on hydraulic solenoids and controls here:

Need remote advice on L5030 w Cab

LeRoi · Dec 3, 2005

I'm with you TXDon, my tractor cost more than any vehicle I have ever bought, and it doesn't even have air conditioning, but at least it's 4wd /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Leroy

rk246 · Dec 3, 2005

CT,
What system do you have that has this control and diverter? I am looking at the one from the dealer which I assume is a Kubota, but I didn't ask the dealer, The prices all lined up though with what I saw the other day on a thread for Kubota. Can I add the joystick to the Kubota system? If I put the remotes is it something easlily added? So all three of your remotes are on the back? then you run one hose forward to run the front grapple? Doesn't the grapple take more than one remote?

I think I have it all figured out, then I realize I am just more confused and there seem to be so many options?

As for the price of the tractor, they are definetely very expensive, My dad says he paid less than that for his first house....

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 4, 2005

Ryan:

Let me begin by saying that for me, "remotes" were one of the most confusing parts of figuring out tractors. Let me also say that for the modest to non-existant increase in cost over getting "conventional" remotes, I can't really see myself ever putting "Kubota brand" or "JD brand" or any other type of conventional remote on any tractor that I ever buy.

A remote is just a hand-operated valve with with an output port and a return port. This means that whatever attachment you're going to control has to A) have hydraulic hoses running (all the way?) to and from the location of the remotes, and B) have all of its functions controlled by means of moving individual levers. In the case of my rear grapple, this would have meant moving one lever to open the jaws, and moving another lever to raise and lower them. I pictured this getting really "old" really fast, and went with the bank of three electric solenoids all operated by one really cool joystick that lets me use the grapple incredibly effectively, with no fumbling for levers, just by moving the joystick around. I could practically take out someone's appendix with this setup, and I highly recommend it. I can also see it being incredibly useful for top-n-tilt.

The use of solenoids and joysticks allows you to locate solenoids, joysticks and hoses wherever you want to, within reason. For instance, my front grapple is powered by a fourth electric solenoid mounted on the lower inboard right-hand loader frame, and is operated by the rocker switch on my (replacement) loader handle.

Lastly: If I put the remotes is it something easily added? I hope I've properly conveyed my point that you don't need remotes at all to do this, and that for me, they aren't the way to go at all. This can be done to any make and model of tractor that has a hydraulic pump. Having remotes already installed only complicates the process, as they would then have to be either eliminated, or be bungeed one way or the other to provide hydraulic flow to your solenoids, adding resistance to the hydraulic flow in the process.

Finally, which with me is sometimes not the same as lastly: solenoids are always more convenient to use than diverter valves. I'm usually very sparing in my use of the word "always", but I'm going for it here. Give the extra expense some serious consideration. You'll get a nicer setup in return for your $$.

Hope this helps and makes sense, John

MadReferee · Dec 4, 2005

First of all you have to detrmine what you want to use the remotes for. If it is for TNT then by all means go with the Kubota factory setup as it is nicely integrated and your dealer can do it and it's probably cheaper than diverters/solenoids, especially if you are hydraulically limited in knowledge.

Factory setups give you 2 or 3 levers on the fender to control the top and tilt cylinders. You don't have hoses running everywhere since the lines are all tubing to the quick connects. If you have another implement that needs a hydraulic connection, like a dump wagon, then you can remove the tilt hoses and connect them to the implement.

If you want to add a grapple or other front mounted function then there are better ways (diverters, solenoids, etc) to accomplish this.

The great majority of tractor users go for the factory remotes. If you do a search for TNT or rear remotes you will get tons of hits that describe how others have fared with this.

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 4, 2005

Mad - sorry to be on a slightly different side of an issue as you, you've been here a lot longer and I admire your work. But I want to comment on:

 The great majority of tractor users go for the factory remotes. If you do a search for TNT or rear remotes you will get tons of hits that describe how others have fared with this. 

I'd just like to encourage everyone to resist the temptation to do something just because everyone else seems to be doing it. Witness some of the problems that teenagers, lemmings and buffalo have had with this practice. I urge everyone to look at the physics, ergonomics and $$ involved, and I hope that you reach a decision that is the result of a careful and complete examination of all the factors. I was all set to get factory remotes, along with the "great majority", until I learned about some of the alternatives, and am now profoundly glad that I went another route. Sometimes the minority is a good place to be.

I'm just trying to pass on some personal experience of mine, based on 560 hours of using a joystick/solenoid setup to control a 3ph-mounted implement that has multiple hydraulic functions. It seems to me that it really might boost productivity and lead to a better job, particularly with box blades and regular blades, if you can quickly and precisely adjust two cylinders with a flick of the wrist as you're moving along.

JerryG · Dec 4, 2005

Most owners that are new to tractors prefer to go with the factory remotes because that is the easiest way to get the end result that they want. They have no desire to learn all about hydraulics, they just want the remotes. In choosing the factory remotes it is the easiest and the least complicated.

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 4, 2005

Most owners that are new to tractors prefer to go with the factory remotes because that is the easiest way to get the end result that they want. They have no desire to learn all about hydraulics, they just want the remotes. In choosing the factory remotes it is the easiest and the least complicated. 

Jerry:

Again I find myself alienating a "regular" here in the course of trying to be helpful and informing people of their options.

And again I find myself prefacing my remarks by saying that I truly respect your experience and many fine contributions to this site.

However, with said due respect, I take exception to the statement that They have no desire to learn all about hydraulics. By "they", you're including me, and thereby speaking for me, and I prefer to do that for myself. You're also speaking for Ryan, who asked the question that prompted my response. And you're also speaking for many of the people who are reading this thread, whose very interest in reading it indicates to me that they do indeed have at least some interest in learning about hydraulics. My tractor is the first I have ever owned, and I outfitted it in a way that as I best saw fit, given a careful review of my options. A review that included reading many, many posts on this site. And at the risk of appearing immodest, I think that while I was trying, not long ago, to figure out which end is up with tractors, I would have been very glad to have had some of the very information that I have been offering in my posts, which I offer with no other agenda that to try to help people come to an informed decision, instead of having to do all of the "legwork" and research that I had to do on my own, and with the help of this site. To me, that's one of the things that this site is all about.

I also must disagree that installing hydraulic solenoids is any more complicated for a tractor buyer, novice or otherwise. For me, the extra trouble involved my saying "Here Bob, this is what I want", and he installed it. Besides, even if it had been more complicated, the simplest course, despite the time-honored K.I.S.S. rule, is not always the one that best delivers the end result that they want , especially if they don't have the necessary information to really know exactly what they want. And sometimes, what you think you want is quite different from what you end up with, after further consideration. Witness the fact that I was all set to get 3 factory remotes, and as I said, am now extremely glad I didn't.

Knowledge is power. Power to the people, right on.

John

***** Edit *****

I'd like to provide this link to my first post ever on TBN. I hope it might shed some light on where I'm coming from, and show how much I do appreciate all of the help that I've gotten here, yours included. Favors from hundreds of strangers that I would like to help pay back, and hopefully shift from the "stranger" column to the "friend" column. I hate confrontation, but I love the pursuit of truth and knowledge. Sometimes the latter manifests the former, but I try my best to see that it doesn't.

"Our" 5030 - thanks to all at TBN for your help!

JerryG · Dec 4, 2005

John,
You are trying to make this all harder than it needs to be.
The vast majority of new owners is the "They" that I was referring to. "They" as a group order the tractor already setup. "They" as a group would much rather let the dealer take care of all the hydraulics before the tractor is delivered. "They" as a group are confused by hydraulics. That is why "They" as a group are better off just letting the tractor be built with the factory valves. Then "They" will have a durable system that will last the life of the tractor that any dealer should be able to service should the need arise. And YES any dealer should be able to service any type of valves that are on any of their equipment, BUT some dealers don't seem to be up on even simple hydraulics the way that they should be.