Removing ~50 Hardwood Stumps

[flyer]

I've perused several stump removing threads here and have come to some concensus, but I wanted to check and get any last recommendations. I have at least 50 stumps to pull, most of which are hardwoods (mostly oak/maple), of varying diameter from 6" to 24". Most are at least 12". They are all cut close to the ground.

I also need to cut some more trees down, so for those I have the option of cutting higher (or just pushing over, if the equipment will do it, and if you think that's a good idea).

The concensus from the threads seems to be that the best bet is digging them out with a backhoe. I had contemplated using a dozer, and of course grinding. I don't want to grind because I would like to regrade the areas for a nice lawn, and from the threads it seems using a dozer is not a good choice.

The local rental place that has anything close to being able to handle this job has a JD 310 backhoe, so that is my choice for now. So, a few questions:

(1) Will the 310 be able to do this job?
(2) How long do you think it will take me, engine and clock time? I am not an experienced backhoe operator. Rental is per day (8 hours engine, 24 hours clock).
(3) I wish I could get something with a "thumb", but I don't think it's available, so, will my JD 855 front loader be able to move these stumps around if necessary (since I won't be able to put all 50 on the burn pile at once)?
(4) How big of a hole will remain? Will I need substantial dirt brought in or will some minor re-grading fill it in?

Thanks!!

 

[tlynch99]

(1) Will the 310 be able to do this job?
You should be able to dig them out with a 310, I have used a 310G the smaller backhoe that united rentals has, and can definitely dig out some good sized stumps in New England.

(2) How long do you think it will take me, engine and clock time? I am not an experienced backhoe operator. Rental is per day (8 hours engine, 24 hours clock).

It will take some time to get coordinated to the backhoe controls, and everyone gets the hang of it with different amounts of time, I have maybe 70 - 80 hours of backhoe time, and would use a ball park of 5-10 minutes per stump depending on the size and soil conditions.

(3) I wish I could get something with a "thumb", but I don't think it's available, so, will my JD 855 front loader be able to move these stumps around if necessary (since I won't be able to put all 50 on the burn pile at once)?

Thumbs are great, I have a Ford 1910 Tractor and wouldn't think of trying to lift a 28-24 inch stump. Sometimes you can use backhoe teeth to split the stump in half, but probably not if they are green.

(4) How big of a hole will remain? Will I need substantial dirt brought in or will some minor re-grading fill it in?

Big stumps leave pretty big holes, unless you have random hills / mounds of dirt you can grade into the holes you are going to be stuck with low spots, if you don't have fill brought in.

Hope that helps.

 

[rickster]

I just had a bunch of pine stumps push out 50-60. The guy was fast! He had a case 850 loader and was done in 3 hrs. By the time you rent a back hoe or what ever and pay for fuel its going to cost quite a bit. Just my opinion, find a good dozer operator to do the job.

 

[rexcramer]

The small stumps will take about five minutes once you get the hang of it, the large ones can take up to half hour if they are oaks. You have a few days of work at least, it will take a day just to get used to how far you have to dig around the stump, getting it out of the hole, etc. Having the stumps cut close to the ground makes the job tougher, unless they are really old stumps.

I have done a couple hundred stumps as I have been clearing my property with my 580 Case, and trust me this will take longer than you think.

Get a weekly rental rate, it is usually cheaper than a daily rate. Then you can use the Deere to do all the work and save the wear and tear on your machine. Get your money's worth out of that rental.

 

[mchasal]

Personally, short of hiring a bulldozer, I'd look into a compact excavator to do this job. A lot less jockying around to get in the right spot, especially if the stumps are all relatively close together. Since you're renting something anyway, see if you can find an excavator. They're also often available with thumbs.

 

[RonMar]

Even a small backhoe can do a good job on a stump if used correctly. Unfortunately with a backhoe there is going to be a considerable ammount of repositioning time between stumps(retract the hoe, lift the legs, get into the tractor seat or rotate the seat to drive the tractor around whatever trees and obstacles are in and around the stumps, reset the hoe, ect). In my opinion a track-hoe would be a better choice for a tool if renting as it should do the job faster as moveing and digging is all done from the same seat and can be done simultaneously. A thumb would also be very valuable for pulling the stump out and getting it out of the way for a little bit of smoothing after the dig.

I am in a similar situation with a LOT of stumps to remove, some as large as 30" and a lot of associated obstacles. The rental on a track-hoe large enough to remove them at a reasonable rate is pretty expensive at around $600 per 8/24 day including delivery and tax in my area. Even at that, I don't forsee being able to pull more than 2-3 per hour once I figure in the time to transit and reposition between removals and the initial time to learn the machine. That is several days work and lots of rental dollars and fuel. My wife suggested that I might be better off putting that money into purchasing a backhoe for my tractor and removing them on MY schedule(God I love that woman ) instead of playing "beat the rental clock". 1-2 per evening and I could probably be mostly done by summers end and at least have a backhoe(might come in handy when we build the new house) to show for all my troubles.

 

[flyer]

Thanks all ...

I'm looking now for an excavator/track-hoe that I might be able to rent (preferably with a thumb!), but no luck yet. Also looking for someone I could hire out to do the work if it can be potentially faster and cheaper ... again, no luck yet!

 

[Billy_S]

I will say, at least here in central IL, you could hire that done cheaper than you could rent the equipment and do it yourself. Of course, that wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

 

[Slamfire]

My method probably won't work with short stumps. I run a sub soiler around the stump, then hook a short chain, with a log dog, to the stump. The other end of the chain hooks onto a pole of some type, wood, channel, I beam, or square tube, I attach another short chain to the opposite end of the pole, and the drawbar, then twist the stump out of the ground, by driving around it.

 

[hazmat]

You can't get rental equipment in the booming metropolis of Ithaca, NY? (CU class of '97 here). You might have to expand your search radius - Elmira, Cortland, Binghamton, or Syracuse. Try calling your local tractor dealers - they should at least be able to refer you to the closest bigger rental yard.

I guess I'm spoiled - Last year they opened a Volvo Rents about 5 miles from my house. There are a couple of rental yards on the New Hampshire seacoast as well as a Taylor Rental & Home Depot (for the smaller stuff). The local tractor dealers seem to rent their stuff too.

You may want to reconsider the stump grinder. They are way faster than smaller backhoes at removing stumps. You can grind a few inches to a foot below the surface depending on the model. Around here the push models are about $130 a day, the drive models (bigger and automatically wag the cutter) $200. I'm not sure how much you want to regrade the area. I've rented the push model & it only took a few minutes per stump to bring a 10" ash 4" below ground. The stumps were "aged" a year or 2. Smaller, older stumps ground up as fast as I could move the machine.

 

[gotcha]

You may want to reconsider the stump grinder. They are way faster than smaller backhoes at removing stumps. You can grind a few inches to a foot below the surface depending on the model. Around here the push models are about $130 a day, the drive models (bigger and automatically wag the cutter) $200. I'm not sure how much you want to regrade the area. I've rented the push model & it only took a few minutes per stump to bring a 10" ash 4" below ground. The stumps were "aged" a year or 2. Smaller, older stumps ground up as fast as I could move the machine.

What you say in your comment is totally true. However, I did just what you did and everything seem to be just perfect and got new lawn to grow above the stump. It was until about 4 to 5 years later I found the problem with grinding stumps. My yard started to have sink holes in all the areas that I removed the stump via grinding. It was the rest of the stump decaying and the ground settled and after a couple more years there where good size depressions in the lawn. Guess one would say that was the bad side of grinding.
The Gotcha man

 

[PBinWA]

I just had a bunch of pine stumps push out 50-60. The guy was fast! He had a case 850 loader and was done in 3 hrs. By the time you rent a back hoe or what ever and pay for fuel its going to cost quite a bit. Just my opinion, find a good dozer operator to do the job.

I'll second this. Call some excavation companies and see if they can bring a big excavator out on an off-day. I had 55 Douglas firs plucked shaken and stacked in 3-4 hours by 55,000 Excavator for around $1000.

 

[hazmat]

More tractor time I haven't experienced that (yet) but it's only been 2 years... Thanks for bringing up the risk. I suppose the bigger grinder that gets down a foot may help mitigate this problem (by removing more of the stump)?

What you say in your comment is totally true. However, I did just what you did and everything seem to be just perfect and got new lawn to grow above the stump. It was until about 4 to 5 years later I found the problem with grinding stumps. My yard started to have sink holes in all the areas that I removed the stump via grinding. It was the rest of the stump decaying and the ground settled and after a couple more years there where good size depressions in the lawn. Guess one would say that was the bad side of grinding.
The Gotcha man

 

[EddieWalker]

flyer,

The JD 310 is a good sized backhoe that will take out stumps fairly easily once you get the hang of operating it. The size of your stumps isn't going to make too big a difference, as they are all pretty similar in size and species.

I've done hundreds of stumps and even more trees with my backhoe and feel pretty comfortable with what I'm doing. If I was to estimate how long it will take, I'd put it at an hour per stump.

You need to figure in getting to each stump, positioning yourself and digging out around the stumps. Roots close to the stump will be thicker, but also held in place by the dirt around them. This makes them harder to take out. Start out a few feet away from the stump where you can break throught the roots easily. Then work your way inwards. Once you get the roots cut, dig down about four feet on both sides of the stump. Change positions and do the other two sides the same way.

There is a sweat spot where the backhoe has more leverage then other spots. Too close or too far away and you don't have as much power and leverage. Get in the right spot, and the stump pops right out.

What are your plans for the area you are removing the stump? If it's just pasture, then you can turn the stump sideways and bury it. People will tell you that it will rot and the ground will settle, but I'm not so sure about this. I think 90% of the ground settling is from the ground not being compacted when it's buried. Over time, the dirt settles and you get a low spot. The stump isn't roting, it's just the soil filling in the voides from not being compacted.

There was a show on TV about landfills. A University in Southern California drilled down into the landfill to where it was in the early 1970's and was able to pull out newspapers when Nixon was peresident that they could still read. Over thirty years in the ground, and newspaper didn't decompose.

This was something they didn't expect, but started doing research on and found that if you bury something and it's not exposed to the elements, it will not decompose.

I've dug up lumber that has been buried for over a decade that was still in pretty decent shape, so I believe this to be true. I wouldn't build a house or barn over buried stumps, but I have allot of them in my fields without any depresions forming yet. I compacted the fill really good, so I don't expect anything to happen either.

If you feel you have to remove the stumps out of the hole, this will add to your time. If you are going to put them into a burn pile, it's faster to carry a stump then it is to push it. If you cannot get the stump into the bucke, a chain works good for this, but it takes some practice to get it to stay on your bucket.

I'd rent the backhoe for a full week if I was gonna rent a machine to have it done. My backhoe uses about half a tank of fuel a day. Figure 12 to 14 gallons a day of fuel, plus your rental and other fees for a week. Take that number and see if you can hire it out for that amount.

This isn't a fun job. After your first couple of stumps, it becomes work.

If you are thinking about a trackhoe, remember that it takes a big machine to a faster job then the backhoe. Compare hp to each. The JD 310 is around 75 to 80 hp. Don't rent a smaller trackhoe and think it will do the job faster because it's a trackhoe. It is better then a bachoe for digging, but useless for moving stumps around. It's also useless for moving dirt if you want to fill those holes again.

A big trackhoe with a thumb will pluck the stumps out in a few minutes. I don't think you can rent one big enough to do this, but if you can hire it out, it should be a day job for the right machine. My neighbor has a guy with a Cat 315 on his land and it's too small to pluck out stumps. He has to dig them out just like I do with the backhoe. He has more power and can dig them out faster, but then they use a backho to fill in the holes and carry the stumps to the burn pile.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[john_bud]

Eddie,

The stumps will rot down and as that happens the wood turns into C02 and nutrients for the soil. The rate that happens is based on the type of wood, the soil, bacteria present, moisture content and amount of available air (oxygen).

If you think about the study from the U of crazyfornia you will have to come to the conclusion that they weren't very bright. First of all, landfills are engineered in such a way that no effuents can escape and contaminate the ground water. Huge thick layers of clay and membrane liners. Then the garbage is layered with clay to completely encapsulate it. Then more is put on top, like a layer cake where the frosting is clay and the cake is garbage (yum). Two important things are missing in a land fill by design - air and water. Without those two things the biological actions can't take place rapidly and the garbage is entombed for a very very long time.

Smarter ways to deal with garbage are to separate out the inorganic constituents and then digest the organics with tailored bacteria to produce methane gas for fuel. Many land fills are moving in this direction - it's good for the environment and good economics as they produce a saleable product - methane for fuel.

jb

 

[rutwad]

I am looking at removing 40-50 stumps myself. I figure grinding is the way to go. I had a guy price the job for $650 (very reasonable). There is no way I would go about this with a JD 310 or similiar size backhoe. It would take a week, but a grinder can do it in a day. And burning the stumps after digging them out is anoher job in itself. Burn, spread, repile, burn, repeat. Also, many places around here have a burn ban from May through September.

I found a rental grinder for $140 for 24 hrs. real time since it does not have a hour meter. I don't see how it could be any cheaper or easier, but that's just my $.02

 

[bucmeister]

john_bud is spot on with his explaination concerning stumps rotting in open ground versus no rot in the landfill. The whole design of the current landfills is to prevent decomposition.

As to the stumps rotting after being ground I can attest to the fact that they absolutely do. Right now I have holes about the size of a good fence post hole all in my front yard which is the rotting tap root of pines that were harvested and stumps ground years ago. Also have two low spots where old pecans were taken down, stump and all. Even when the stump is removed there is still enough wood down there that the ground will settle as it decomposes.

 

[Farwell]

Flyer,
I had 40 stumps ground for $10 a stump. The guy had a self propelled grinder that was driven by hydraulics. The hole, after the grinding was done, was at least 18 inches deep and 36 inches wide with most of the larger roots close to the stump gone. All of my stumps were Red Pine, most were 18 to 24 inches across and cut at ground level. One of the best $400 deals in my life.

 

[Glowplug]

This reminds me of one of my first threads on Renting and Operating an excavator!

By the way, that job STILL hasn't been done!

 

[AndyMA]

I have both a 11' backhoe and a 44,000# excavator and have removed hundreds if not thougsands of stumps. There is no way they will take 5 to 10 minutes each if you include relocation time and also moving the stumps. With the 11 hoe I have spent several hours on a large oak with rocks lodged in it's roots. Getting rid of the stumps may not be as easy as you think. Here in Mass and Conn burying them is illegal. Big fines and dig them out. They either need to be ground at a commercial stump grinding facility or go to a legal stump dump in a large dump ( and not many of them fit, and it takes a good size machine to get them in), What I've been doign lately with the excavator is to dig a very deep hole 12' or so right next to stump and burying them deep. Deep enought so that they don't have air to rot and also I don't have to bring in the few hundred yards of fill material to fill the holes. The prices I've seen above in this post seem way low to me. Just my experiences.

andy