Removing barn loft reinforcing

[PILOON]

Maybe one ounce of prevention might be better than a cure down the road.
One concern that I'd have would be dampness creating rot on the base plates, and some must have occurred over time.
My thoughts along that line would be a wood preservative generously applied and or sprayed all along the base where the wood contacts the concrete.
I once used a pressure garden sprayer to do such a task. Worked quite well.

 

[Streetcar]

I second egon. Have a knowledgeable person repair foundation. Otherwise the barn looks great

 

[PILOON]

Maybe one ounce of prevention might be better than a cure down the road.
One concern that I'd have would be dampness creating rot on the base plates, and some must have occurred over time.
My thoughts along that line would be a wood preservative generously applied and or sprayed all along the base where the wood contacts the concrete.
I once used a pressure garden sprayer to do such a task. Worked quite well.

Looking at the side wall bulging either suggests bad or partially decaying wood but more likely lack of attachments to the concrete base.
If the base plates are sound you could always drill and add concrete anchors or expansion bolts.
Once built a large barn and we found it easier to add attachments using a hammer drill and installing expansion bolts.
We did a 60 X 200 riding arena with expansion bolts every 2 ft and 2 men did that job in about 7-8 hours.
Used that hammer drill and an electric impact gun to tighten them up .
Used 1/2 X 6" expansion hardware.

Back in the old days workers often simply liked to hammer in 4" nails into the relatively fresh concrete and call it good to go.
Dampness possibly has rusted thru 1/2 of those old nails allowing the sides to start bowing outwards.

 

[Egon]

Note the corner concrete broken and separated from the rest of the foundation & the interior gap!

 

[Budweiser John]

Yet another suggestion.
Michigan has a barn preservation organization which I believe to be an affiliate of a national organization.
It might be interesting to snoop around the net and see what's out there in your area. The Michigan group has provided technical advice and in some cases monetary grants to preserve rural structures. I recall adaptive reuse was a favorable buzz word when it came to grant $$.

 

[fried1765]

mtaves:

Thanks for sending us those pictures!
In my opinion you are WAY over thinking the situation!
That barn looks great!
It definitely does look like it needs a new foundation though.
If you will let me disassemble it, I could put it on a new foundation for you ..... AT MY PLACE!

 

[Cord]

I have a 30'x50' barn with a 30' high loft I have finally cleared of pigeons and all their leavings. I want to turn it into a usable space, but bracing inside really limits the practical floor space. The end wall bracing I will leave, but there is a brace mid-way on the roof down to the floor that I need to remove. I have seen numerous barns in my area that have collapsed, where the building had this same profile (although they were much longer) so want to make sure I don't screw up a loft that is currently in pretty decent shape. I have included two pictures to give a sense of the geometry/size. You can see the brace is bowing a little, which tells me there has been some (but not much) sagging in the middle already. I would appreciate any feedback/ideas on what to do as an alternate bracing to allow me to safely remove this brace. I have 2 ideas so far:

1: add cross cabling 10-12' off the floor
2: add diagonal bracing between studs, the opposite way of existing bracing. The existing diagonal bracing does not give any additional support at the midpoint of the roof. Bracing high at the mid-roof point and going down towards the ends, in an inverted-V, should improve rigidity over what the current 10' long 2x4's are accomplishing.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

You have what is called a "Gothic" barn. Think "American Gothic". They were a pre-engineered structure that was built on site to a set of stock plans. I actually have plans for them somewhere around here. I always thought of them as being my favorite barn shape. The design is actually a simple three hinge arch. The one hinge point is at the ridge and then there are two additional points at the floor. The rafter-floor connection is critical as it's transferring the outwards thrust into the floor joists which are under tension. Anyways, you can remove the braces on the left side of the photo. Unless they are trying to fix a problem with the rafter or there is a dormer cut into the roof, they don't serve any purpose. I'd be more reluctant to remove the braces at the end wall. Post additional photos of these braces so I can see if they were original or added later.

Does your building have a full lower level? If so, I'd like you to check the foundation walls to see if they are straight. Often the corner cracks are a symptom of a foundation that is failing. In the lower level, stand at the back corner and sight down the wall. It should be straight and plumb. If that wall is anything but, then you know where the problem lies. You can also look at the interior columns and see if they're plumb.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Just from pictures the barn may be a lot older than the loft or the bottom cement floor.


Your last picture tells the tale. The foundation is asking for help.

I'd suggest the present footings are not deep enough or wide enough nor will they have any rebar. Sulphates may have deteriorated the concrete.

Resolving the footings is not a do it yourself job. It could be done piece meal but that really isn't a proper solution. As the pockets allow start looking for bids.

Revisiting the photos, I agree. The top looks great, the foundation could use some help. Not that it's going to fall down tomorrow, next week or next year but worth having a pro look at it. And don't expect them to come back with anything cheap for a solution. Foundation guys around here (both contractors and engineers) tend to panic and go WAY overboard on repairs.

 

[Egon]

Revisiting the photos, I agree. The top looks great, the foundation could use some help. Not that it's going to fall down tomorrow, next week or next year but worth having a pro look at it. And don't expect them to come back with anything cheap for a solution. Foundation guys around here (both contractors and engineers) tend to panic and go WAY overboard on repairs.

Unfortunetly, without foundation repair, the deterioration will escalate. It is a nice well built barn. Every farm used to have one but the age of tractors and no horses to feed has seen them disappear.

lots of fun jumping down onto loose hay. Lotsa work when bailers arrived and they got filled with hand stacked bales.

 

[mtaves]

Thanks everyone for the amazing and comprehensive feedback!

By consensus, and from looking at the loft more closely, there is no problem in the loft structure or the arches. It is hard to determine if the side braces are original or not: it is dressed lumber so not incredibly old, but floor joists are dressed as well. There used to be a similar brace on the other side that was removed to put in a furnace room. That being said, I cannot see how much support those 2x4's would give if something started to move - they are not positioned to effectively counteract the outward thrust at the base.

The foundation is definitely where some attention is required. The fractures could be a combination of years of frost-heaving plus an extremely active burrowing gopher population. I will be looking at gathering information from local professionals this coming year as to what needs to be done and what it will cost. I will definitely keep in mind that engineers tend to go way overboard (I am one and that is what started the initial question on removing the spindly side braces...). It will probably be awhile before I can scrape together enough cash to undertake whatever has to be done, but will post updates for you all once it does happen.

Someone mentioned a Michigan-based group that assists with preserving older rural structures. I will have a look to see if there is some equivalent in Alberta.

Thanks again everyone!