Repair/mechanic tricks and or tips?

[SPYDERLK]

Said another way, always apply force to a Crescent wrench so that the intended direction of motion is toward the movable side. That is the way I was taught in the USAF.
Pat

Pat, I interpret that as the opposite of what Skyco said. I have heard both arguments in the past. My intuitive analysis leads me to support Skycos, altho absent analysis it strikes me that the USAF teaching strikes the intuitive chord more readily.
larry

 

[patrick_g]

OOPS... Spyder dude I think you made a small mistake. I got his comment wrong the first time I read it. He and I commented on two entirely different aspects of proper usage, I think.

He is telling users to shove the jaws all the way toward the nut which reduces leverage on the jaws (I think.) My comment was on which way (of the two choices) to place the wrench.

You want the greater force to be applied to the fixed jaw. That should be intuitively obvious to even the casual observer! That is accomplished when you are trying to turn the wrench into (toward) the movable jaw. This places less force on the more delicate movable jaw.

If you consider the pipe wrench... One and only one orientation grasps the workpiece while using it backwards will just slip. Proper usage of an adjustable spanner, aka Crescent wrench is to place it as if it were a pipe wrench.

Although maybe I didn't and may still not understand what he said in his post, I claim what I said in this post regarding orientation of the wrench as if it were a pipe wrench to be THE correct application. Hopefully we are in agreement here as disagreeing with your opinions is done with a certain degree of trepidation given your correctness quotient in previous posts.

Patrick

 

[SPYDERLK]

OOPS... Spyder dude I think you made a small mistake. I got his comment wrong the first time I read it. He and I commented on two entirely different aspects of proper usage, I think.

He is telling users to shove the jaws all the way toward the nut which reduces leverage on the jaws (I think.) My comment was on which way (of the two choices) to place the wrench.

You want the greater force to be applied to the fixed jaw. That should be intuitively obvious to even the casual observer! //////// That is accomplished when you are trying to turn the wrench into (toward) the movable jaw. This places less force on the more delicate movable jaw.

If you consider the pipe wrench... [-----]

Hopefully we are in agreement here as disagreeing with your opinions is done with a certain degree of trepidation given your correctness quotient in previous posts.

Patrick

Pat, above -- yes //////// but no. Separation forces on the two jaws are identical since they react on one another thru the flats on the nut. Looked at in the limiting case, as you often do in your lucid explanations, this is almost exactly true when the handle is very long. When the handle is shorter the force required to cause torque increases proportionately. This force is borne by the jaw on the far side of the pull. The jaw on the near side is spared this force. However, unless the wrench handle is very short this difference in force pales in comparison to the balanced separation force caused by the flats on the nut. The telling issue to me is where on the jaw this separation force is applied. On the far side the force is borne at the root of the jaw. On the near side it bears closer to the tip, creating much more leverage on the jaw support. Thats why the movable jaw should be on the far side of the pull - to avoid this leveraged condition.

A pipe wrench is a self clasping wrench and has to be used in one direction to work. That direction tho does bear the force at the root of the weaker/movable jaw if used on flats.

Pipe pliers are somewhat self clasping and in only the correct direction. Only the V jaw type is really good on nuts because it acts to prevent the leveraged condition far out on the movable jaw.
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That is high praise coming from you Pat. I think you just dont know how much I keep my mouth shut when I dont know nuttin!
larry

 

[Egon]

Me thinks that if you do not know which direction to push/pull on an adjustable wrench [of which there are many kinds] you just may be a spanner!!

 

[patrick_g]

I guess the GOV and other safety agencies got it wrong too!

One sample of a Google hit:

NASD: Safe Use of Hand Held Tools
Wrenches: When placing an adjustable wrench on a nut, make sure the adjustable jaw faces the operator; then pull the wrench toward the operator.
NASD: Safe Use of Hand Held Tools - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Another "hit"

"Pull, don't push, on the wrench. If you push on a wrench it tends to go out of line and slip off. It's far easier to keep the wrench aligned correctly if you're pulling on it.

If you must use an open end adjustable wrench (Crescent wrench), set it on the bolt so the adjustable jaw is on the side of the direction of the turn. This puts the most force on the fixed jaw and it's less likely the adjustable jaw will spring away from the bolt head.

This is two of many many...

Spyder Dude, Not that your analysis wasn't well written, it just wasn't convincing to me. I didn't want to be closed minded or bull headed so I thought I better get some additional input from reliable sources so I would not remain in ignorance. If somehow you were right I had some learning to do and a congratulatory note to write to you.

It wouldn't be the first time the USAF got something wrong but sorry not this time as it seems yours is a "minority" report.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

That was a pretty funny movie. Had you wondering almost up to the end..

Soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

Yeah, OK flick but there were no tractors in it! See my new post on that topic.

Pat

 

[BTDT]

It wouldn't be the first time the USAF got something wrong


Bumper sticker from Roswell "UFO'S are real, the Air Force doesn't exist"

 

[SPYDERLK]

I guess the GOV and other safety agencies got it wrong too!

If you must use an open end adjustable wrench (Crescent wrench), set it on the bolt so the adjustable jaw is on the side of the direction of the turn. This puts the most force on the fixed jaw and it's less likely the adjustable jaw will spring away from the bolt head.

It wouldn't be the first time the USAF got something wrong but sorry not this time as it seems yours is a "minority" report.

Pat

Pat, the authorities are parroting each other with no rationale or supporting explanation of forces. The handle angle does disfavor the moveable jaw being pulled on and also suggests the issue of slip off mentioned. However, I have never had a problem of that nature and I am definitely not quoting people who are quoting one another. The physics is against them unless I introduce possible issues I see, that, whether telling or not, they could use to make their argument for them. The many need to make their own substantial argument. Fixed open ended wrenches fail on the near side of the pull. Admittedly the movable jaw situation has some nuanced differences when applied at that angle. Maybe one of the many, or the few, will explain that in a way that allows definitive and proper weighting of the parameters. Im certainly open to learning what weight to give each from someone having real knowledge of relative strengths in the design.
larry

 

[patrick_g]

SpiderGuy, You may have to set up a 12 step program or series of lessons with lab to explain it to me because I didn't get it before and now I am having trouble with my browser settings. I'm not sure but I think I found the problem that caused me to only get...

Pat, // Content Filtered //
larry

I found a SYSADMIN browser setting //BSFILTER = ON//

Pat ;