repeated snowblower troubles

[farmboyhull]

first of all, i'm on dial up. i looked a little bit, but it's pretty painful... sorry if this is already out there.

i've got a used inland snowblower. this is my first season with it and my second storm.

the "spindle" on teh blower that the pto shaft connects to is odd. I feel like I'm a pretty smart guy, but I just don't get this.

the "spindle" has a slot in it, with a piece of metal that has been welded into it. the metal sticks up past the surface of the cylinder, and then the "sleeve" of the pto shaft can slide over it. My assumption is that the sleeve with this keyed cylinder were originally like that and that is how power is transferred to the blower. but why is it welded on with a tiny little weld? the piece is now gone because i lost it.

there is a pin that goes through the same sleeve and cylinder, and i would assume that the pin isn't helping to transfer power, but it's there just to keep the sleeve from sliding forward and back.

the question(s) is:
1. do i need to weld on a new piece, or can a pin supply the power?
2. what grade pins do you all use? I have two places I can use a pin, and this one doesn't really seem like it's supposed to be some sort of shear pin.

thanks very much.

David

 

[leonz]

Seems like they are, or were shear pin points.

I would want to use a size standard shear pin of low breaking strength or a grade 3 bolt that is almost sawn through; If you have a farm hardware store near by you want shear pins bolts with the lowest shearing strength;


To make it less painfull: you can make a mesh frame for the base width of the blower using angle iron for the sides and four pieces of narrow steel flat stock to sandwich some concrete reinforcing mesh ( 1 by 2-3 inches) 46 inches tall to keep the rocks out by attaching thr angle iron tot eh sides with bolts and bolting the first two straps to the angle iron uprights and and then attaching the reiniforcing mesh them clamping in place with the second set of flat stock pieces and bolting it together to hold it in place.

The snow will still be consumed and rocks will no longer be an issue or worry
as you can simply raise and lower the blower to reduce the piling effect and clumping if needed.

 

[ctgoldwing]

You might want to check with the manufacturer for a spec on the bolt(s). On my Normand there are two shear bolts. One is grade 2 the other 5. You sure don't want it to be stronger than recommended.

 

[farmboyhull]

i'm not sure i'm even having rock troubles. at one point i heard some going through there, but it didn't stop the machine.

the confusing piece is this lower pin. it doesn't make sense to me that it could even shear, as the metal on the cylinder fits into the sleeve and wouldn't allow anything to shear.

 

[farmboyhull]

ctgoldwing: i've not been able to find any specs. it's discontinued.

 

[leonz]

i'm not sure i'm even having rock troubles. at one point i heard some going through there, but it didn't stop the machine.

the confusing piece is this lower pin. it doesn't make sense to me that it could even shear, as the metal on the cylinder fits into the sleeve and wouldn't allow anything to shear.

Yours is old enough to have the smooth shaft on the gearbox I think and thats why the set up seems odd to you.

The yoke was welded to it at some point probably and thats why.

One of the TBN members had a front mount John Deere that ripped itself apart at the yoke with a smooth shaft gear box the other day and he had pictures of the damage YOOWWWIIIEEE!!!!!!, just plain nasty "Nasty"!!

 

[Craig Clayton]

Is there any chance you could get a picture beause as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Even if you are on dial up we will look at the picture slowly ( there is a joke in there somewhere ). Small stones the size of very small oranges make you think it is coming apart, orange size stones will take out shear pins.
Craig Clayton

 

[rbargeron]

David,
If I'm understanding it right, it sounds like a keyed shaft coupling with a pin (or bolt) to keep it from sliding apart. The key is square steel and both the shaft and sleeve have matching keyways cut in them so the assembly transmits power. Sometimes the key is a tight fit in one part so it doesn't fall out. They're usually not welded in but sometimes they are - some are even silver-soldered, common on older machinery.

A hardware or auto parts store might have a selection of keys. The pin is to keep it assembled. A small bolt will work for this if the key is installed to take the torque.

Sometimes connections like this only have a pin or bolt, no key.

Edit: For my 90" rear finish mower a 1/2" diameter grade 2 bolt (no marks on the head) works. If your bolt or pin shears off too easily, it's probably smaller than 1/2". If you don't have means of drilling both pieces out for a 1/2" bolt, you will need to use a key. See post below.

 

[farmboyhull]

some good thoughts here, thank you all.

a picture would indeed be good, and i'll definitely do that tomorrow if i can't get this going again.

rbargeron - it sounds as if you are suggesting the key is what transfers the power, and a bolt would not do the same thing. perhaps the key that was in there was welded on just to keep it from rattling around? if keys come in various sizes, maybe the one that was there when i bought it was slightly too small...

now that i think of it, there's a little hole above the key. i think it might be a hex head screw to bite down onto that key.

okay. i'll get a key (yahoo. nothing like wasting time driving to the big city...) and try again. then it's a matter of finding the right pins.

it really was sweet cutting through what must have been two feet of light powder. using the FEL was not as sweet.

any other thoughts?

thanks again.

 

[farmboyhull]

It seems I didn't ask this question yet:

the pin holding that sleeve on was a grade 5, and then a grade 8. I broke both of them. For both times the key was not attached with the weld and the connection had a tiny bit of play in it. did i shear those bolts because the key was not welded in (and that hex screw wasn't tightened down), or is there a bigger problem at play?

thanks.

 

[JMynes]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you need a woodruff key. They come in various shapes and sizes, but they "key" the PTO shaft to the input shaft to transfer power to the implement.
The previous owner probably tack welded it in place, because they can be slippery little devils.
Measure the width of the slot and the combined height (or depth) of the two slots. Length is not as critical, use the longest key that will fit. They don't cost much at the hardware store, get a couple of spares.
The little hole is more than likely threaded and a set screw will snug the key down, keeping it from wiggling and moving around. Hopefully the key fits so snug that it won't move anyway.

 

[rbargeron]

It seems I didn't ask this question yet:

the pin holding that sleeve on was a grade 5, and then a grade 8. I broke both of them. For both times the key was not attached with the weld and the connection had a tiny bit of play in it. did i shear those bolts because the key was not welded in (and that hex screw wasn't tightened down), or is there a bigger problem at play?

thanks.

If everything fits together snug the key should not need to be welded in. But if it's been wearing and getting loose, or if the key is too small, then the pin is taking the load and isn't big enough to survive. (See post above)

It sounds like your key doesn't fit right, and the pin isn't big enough to do the job without it. Rehabilitating worn keyways is hard to do without taking the machine apart. But drilling through for a 1/2" diameter bolt should be possible. A grade 2 bolt, 1/2" diameter, will drive most pto implements while offering a bit of over-torque protection. Grade 2 is the commonly available grade at hardware stores (no marks on the head). Get several extras. If you have a couple in your pocket you won't need 'em

BTW, it's possible the key is a woodruff type but they are not common on ag equipment. A woodruff looks like a half-circle - the key seat is cut parallel to the shaft by a round cutter. The key becomes trapped by sliding the coupling over it and can't move either way. No need for welding or a set screw. The seat cutter is usually sized so the key is a tight fit and stays put during handling. Woodruffs are commonly found on tapered shafts where cutting a flat-bottom keyway is less practical.

More likely yours is a straight key. Straight keys are available in several sizes, or you can make one with a hacksaw and a piece of steel plate. In a pinch I have substituted a short length of round stock, laid in the keyway. (it has the same shear area as a square key). Might save a trip to town.

 

[farmboyhull]

Continued thanks, folks.

I got some key stock. Turns out i had to go to town anyway for some sort of tax meeting. My wife likes to mention these things a little alter than I'd like...

the 3/8 key stock fits perfectly. I'm going to cut a piece to length, put in a new pin, screw down that set screw, and hope for the best.

the pin that is used to hold the pieces together is currently a 5/16, i believe. If it appears I have to drill it out bigger, than I'll give that a shot.

Thanks, again.

David

 

[rbargeron]

I'm not surprised the key is 3/8" - Inland stuff is built heavy like other older machinery. With a proper key in there you won't need to increase the size of the keeper bolt. Have fun attacking those drifts ! Take care, Dick B

 

[JohninCT]

ctgoldwing: i've not been able to find any specs. it's discontinued.

I don't know if this is the model of Inland blower you have. If it is you might want to get the manual.

VINTAGE INLAND OPERATOR-PARTS MANUAL-SA60 SNOW BLOWERS - eBay (item 250755246049 end time Jan-17-11 03:37:39 PST)

 

[farmboyhull]

looks like i should be checking ebay more often! Thank for the link.

I ended up taking the blower off a few days ago and putting my blade back on. turns out the other night, when i thought i just had a few small troubles, I really had a large one,a s well. turns out the grade 8 bolt sheared before the grade 5, and the shaft was flapping around and banging against the hitch arms. i'll need a weld job or a new shaft, and i just didn't feel like doing it this winter.

quitters never win, but i'll get a second (or 16th, that feels more accurate) chance next winter.

thanks for all the help.

david