Retaining wall ideas Needed - steep slope with only top access

[FredH]

I also have several wall's built with the blocks that Curly Dave showed . With the footing , the highest of mine isright at 4' , But I never used any type of anchor system or fabric behind the walls . Simply Back - filled with dirt . Our soil around here has a pretty high clay content , especially if it is dug from just below the surface , 6" to 18" is the range . Those were put in by me , 8 or 9 years ago . They have never moved , shifted or otherwise , even when I have drove my TC30 right to the edge . For the price , they are hard to beat . Here in my location , there is a block company that actaully makes them in several colors .

The only down side to them is finding out the truth either before or half way through the project . What I mean by the Truth is that when I first strated that project , the Salesman took Us on a tour , pointed out various blocks till We settled on that type .

" How much do they Weigh ?? " I Asked .

" 35 to 38 pounds " He stated !!!!!

6 pallets Later , Was picking up the 7th pallet with 1 more to go after it . Was talking to a Different Salesman and He admired my old Ford truck that it could haul a entire pallet ??
" At even 38 pounds , Geez that is not even a ton " ?
" 38 pounds ?? Them Blocks are almost 70 pounds a piece !!! "
" Really ?? Aw F*** !! No Wonder my Flippin' Back , Arms and Everything Else Hurt so much after I finish each pallet !!! "

Yea , First Salesman had confused weight with a smaller block . But in all Honesty , I Think when down , They are a outstanding Feature , especially if You can get a colored variety rather than just grey .

Fred H.

 

[tractchores]

I also have several wall's built with the blocks that Curly Dave showed . With the footing , the highest of mine isright at 4' , But I never used any type of anchor system or fabric behind the walls . Simply Back - filled with dirt . Our soil around here has a pretty high clay content , especially if it is dug from just below the surface , 6" to 18" is the range . Those were put in by me , 8 or 9 years ago . They have never moved , shifted or otherwise , even when I have drove my TC30 right to the edge . For the price , they are hard to beat . Here in my location , there is a block company that actaully makes them in several colors .

The only down side to them is finding out the truth either before or half way through the project . What I mean by the Truth is that when I first strated that project , the Salesman took Us on a tour , pointed out various blocks till We settled on that type .

" How much do they Weigh ?? " I Asked .

" 35 to 38 pounds " He stated !!!!!

6 pallets Later , Was picking up the 7th pallet with 1 more to go after it . Was talking to a Different Salesman and He admired my old Ford truck that it could haul a entire pallet ??
" At even 38 pounds , Geez that is not even a ton " ?
" 38 pounds ?? Them Blocks are almost 70 pounds a piece !!! "
" Really ?? Aw F*** !! No Wonder my Flippin' Back , Arms and Everything Else Hurt so much after I finish each pallet !!! "

Yea , First Salesman had confused weight with a smaller block . But in all Honesty , I Think when down , They are a outstanding Feature , especially if You can get a colored variety rather than just grey .

Fred H.

I have some other retaining walls I'm replacing (old Timber walls) in the spring. I'll be using a product like these called Techno bloc. I built some pillars for a driveway gate out of them last year and absolutely loved them. They can be dry stacked or glued together (I glued the pillars because they are 7' high). They may be a good solution if I can figure out the hill too since they can just be carried in place if I can get a stable base to stack them on (and maybe angle them back slightly). I believe some have a way of anchoring geotextile to them, which isn't a bad way to add stability, so I may explore that too.

Now I just wish the ground weren't frozen so I could try out a few of these good ideas and get the thing started!

 

[dfkrug]

6 to 7 feet... boulders as large as a VW Bug... individually placed.

I suppose that rocks placed at the angle-of-repose would not technically be a retaining wall. I have some
places where my contractor set rocks in place about 12 feet high on a slope that was over 100%. No
extra permits there, fortunately.

 

[dfkrug]

The problem is I think the truck would be on the other side of the house. Not sure on the range
of those, but I believe it would be about 100 - 150' horizontally and would have to go over the house and then down
probably 30' to account for the downward slope.

I have had pumped concrete here that was more difficult. In one case, we used a boom truck and reached about 125'
away and 30' up. Another time we used a trailer-mounted pump and used 600' of hose and pumped up 150'.

 

[ultrarunner]

I suppose that rocks placed at the angle-of-repose would not technically be a retaining wall. I have some
places where my contractor set rocks in place about 12 feet high on a slope that was over 100%. No
extra permits there, fortunately.

Thank you... could not think of the word for the life of me...

 

[radioman]

After seeing the pic you drew - it looks like you need to build a access ramp on the farthest left side of pool EXACTLY where you want the retaining wall going down all the way to the far end. you can use that dirt to backfill the retaining wall working back to the ramp. If you can borrow/hire or rent a small width excavator with long boom with hydraulic thumb this would speed up the digging and moving the rocks or blocks. you can use your tractor to transport the rock/stone and excavator to place them as you swing around.
This way you wouldnt be touching the wetland buffer.

 

[CurlyDave]

... I may call around on the concrete idea. I wonder if they can pump through a pipe that's rolled out or something, which could work.

I have had concrete pumped from a pumper which was nothing more than a hopper, a pump and a medium/big diesel engine. The concrete goes through a heavy rubber hose that is ~2.5" - 3" in diameter and comes in about 25' sections. The hose just lays on the ground. The man at the end of the hose has a switch which controls the pump as he guides the concrete into position.

 

[tractchores]

I have had pumped concrete here that was more difficult. In one case, we used a boom truck and reached about 125'
away and 30' up. Another time we used a trailer-mounted pump and used 600' of hose and pumped up 150'.

seems like this may be doable with that approach then. Have to do some pricing, there's a good concrete company local that delivers from just a few yards to a whole foundations worth.

After seeing the pic you drew - it looks like you need to build a access ramp on the farthest left side of pool EXACTLY where you want the retaining wall going down all the way to the far end. you can use that dirt to backfill the retaining wall working back to the ramp. If you can borrow/hire or rent a small width excavator with long boom with hydraulic thumb this would speed up the digging and moving the rocks or blocks. you can use your tractor to transport the rock/stone and excavator to place them as you swing around.
This way you wouldnt be touching the wetland buffer.

That's the plan with the contractors who quoted. The challenge there is going to be getting enough of a cut in to be able to have a machine on it. The contractors think a lot of fill would need to be brought in, which has its own challenges. I've got some mini-ex experience and was thinking of trying out that approach VS trying it with my tractor BH (in this case being able to drive and scoop is huge). The think I haven't been able to figure out is how to make the first cut in, since there's not a level area to start from and I'd basically have to dig the first part from above and then maybe a ramp to get the machine onto it?

I have had concrete pumped from a pumper which was nothing more than a hopper, a pump and a medium/big diesel engine. The concrete goes through a heavy rubber hose that is ~2.5" - 3" in diameter and comes in about 25' sections. The hose just lays on the ground. The man at the end of the hose has a switch which controls the pump as he guides the concrete into position.

Interesting, have to look at these as well. That may be a more portable solution.

 

[CurlyDave]

... The challenge there is going to be getting enough of a cut in to be able to have a machine on it. The contractors think a lot of fill would need to be brought in, which has its own challenges. I've got some mini-ex experience and was thinking of trying out that approach VS trying it with my tractor BH (in this case being able to drive and scoop is huge). The think I haven't been able to figure out is how to make the first cut in, since there's not a level area to start from and I'd basically have to dig the first part from above and then maybe a ramp to get the machine onto it? ...

You need to get the book "Operating Techniques for the Tractor-Loader-Backhoe" by Gary J. Ober. I have the Revised Edition Copyright 1999, 2000. I got it from Builder's Book, Inc. Bookstore, 8001 Canoga Ave., Canoga Park, CA 91304. In 2006, the cost was $38 plus shipping. Their phone number then was 818-887-7828.

Chapter 10 covers Grading and Compaction. Figures 10-3, 10-4 and 10-5 (with associated text) show 3 ways to make the cut I think you want. In this instance, the technique shown in Figure 10-5 is the one I would use. Note that in this figure, the stabilizers are extended by different amounts to level the backhoe even though the machine is on a slope. If you can't get completely level with one try, go part way to level, move forward and completely level the path in a second cut.

A good operator with a tracked excavator could probably adapt the techniques in any of the figures, although a variation on Figure 10.4 would probably be best.

Figure numbers may vary if you get a later edition of the book.

* * * * *

P.S. This is a great book to have. I always look up the correct way to do any job before I start. Has kept me out of a lot of trouble over the years.

 

[tractchores]

You need to get the book "Operating Techniques for the Tractor-Loader-Backhoe" by Gary J. Ober. I have the Revised Edition Copyright 1999, 2000. I got it from Builder's Book, Inc. Bookstore, 8001 Canoga Ave., Canoga Park, CA 91304. In 2006, the cost was $38 plus shipping. Their phone number then was 818-887-7828.

Chapter 10 covers Grading and Compaction. Figures 10-3, 10-4 and 10-5 (with associated text) show 3 ways to make the cut I think you want. In this instance, the technique shown in Figure 10-5 is the one I would use. Note that in this figure, the stabilizers are extended by different amounts to level the backhoe even though the machine is on a slope. If you can't get completely level with one try, go part way to level, move forward and completely level the path in a second cut.

A good operator with a tracked excavator could probably adapt the techniques in any of the figures, although a variation on Figure 10.4 would probably be best.

Figure numbers may vary if you get a later edition of the book.

* * * * *

P.S. This is a great book to have. I always look up the correct way to do any job before I start. Has kept me out of a lot of trouble over the years.

Thanks! I actually have a copy. It's a fantastic book, though I haven't read it all. I'll check out the sections you mention, hadn't even thought to look in it actually. I got it when I was doing a lot of trenching work and a septic repair, it was great. I love the illustrations, makes it easy to understand.

 

[PILOON]

"I could take a huge risk and just do stuff and hope no one measures, however the penalties are severe and a neighbor just got fined $70k+ for clearing trees in the buffer area (they take it pretty seriously here). Given that I'm going to go by the letter and be really careful."

My buddy received a hand delivered fine for $60,000. on a Monday just 5 days before going to court for environmental issues relating to land fill issues.
His land fill area is like 500 ft from the river bed.
He went to court on the designated date and the environment guys never showed up so he won the case. (still cost $$ lawyer fees however)
The main claim was that he could affect the fishes in the river should a land slide happen. (A river is polluted and no fishes anyway) (B The existing land slide is on the neighbor property and existing for over 20 years (time stamped aerial photos prove the issue) and further more due to clay deposits ther are many slides in the area.
To add to the issues waterways are a federal jurisdiction and the fines were emanating from the province.
Get this; they demanded engineering reports as to the weight of his buildings and the effects the weight could effect land slides. (they are all shells on re-enforced slabs)
Since they lost he awaits the next attempt of harassment.
(It is because the city simply does not like his business profile,( public storage facility) and they'd prefer a high class hotel/motel or restaurant as the location is prime real estate.)

As to trees, even dead trees must remain as the little birdies like to nest in them. Squirrels also to nest in the hollows . (local bylaw)
Most of us now practice cut, bury, burn and don't tell.

 

[tractchores]

Reviving an old thread to provide an update. I decided that I don't really need a fancy structural wall, just something that lets me level out the flower bed. I ended up doing the work myself (seems like a major pain to get a contractor to even show up around here right now).

I went with a timber wall installed where the hill started to drop off. I ended up being able to get the BH close enough to do the digging and did a combo of lifting soil up and pushing it down, which created a bit of a ledge on the hillside so I'd have a place to stand and place the wall. I installed the wall last week, due to access much of the work had to be done by hand. Thankfully I only hit 2 large rocks, both small enough for the BH to move, but too big to budge by hand.

The basic design was 8' 6"x6" PT timbers with deadmen every 8' and backfilled against the wall with gravel and a drain pipe before topping and levellin with loam. It turned out to be 70' long and 30" tall. I also burried a row and attacked it to the hill by hammering in 2' rebar sections.

I'll try to post some pics shortly

 

[tractchores]

The photo levels it out a bit, but there's a very steep drop on one side and the pool on the other. In the middle the wall needed almost no backfill, on the ends it needed a lot.


Close up of the deadmen. They were 2 - 3 feet with 15 - 20" cross bars.


The whole wall is curved, which made it very challenging to stagger the joints. I ended up trimming with a chainsaw to make it all smooth in the front, though no one will ever see that angle


A good view of the side hill this is on. The soil is very loose, though I got down to a harder base for the wall. I'll need to go back and level out the ledge on the downhill side of the wall so it doesn't hold water and gives me a level area I can trim the brush back on to keep vines from coming over the wall.


The top of the wall and the pool deck should be more or less level with each other, though I didn't go crazy with lining it up. I will grade the soil to be slightly below the level of the pool deck to keep water and debris from running from the flower bed into the pool area.


Final backfill with gravel. It took about 6 tons of gravel on top of a 4" perforated pipe. There should be minimal water retention behind the wall, but I wanted to also try to minimize how much frost moves it.

 

[s219]

Looks like some good work!