Retaining walls-suggestions???

[Anonymous Poster]

Harvey & everyone else: Many thanks for your advice & wise counsel. The only reason for telephone poles is I can get them free for the hauling. Since they run 8"-12" or more in diameter I was thinking they might be strong enough to avoid use of deadmen, etc. & since they would allow seepage through the wall avoid installing drains. I had, of course, intended to tie them together as they went up. However . . . from the suggestions here I guess that really isn't too good an idea. One of my many failings in life is being a cheap SOB which is sometimes good but often costs more in the long run than simply biting the bullet and doing things the "normal" way. Re: fences above the wall thanks for suggestions but would certainly do that-well aware of liability issues. From the comments here, it is apparently possible to put up a wall without a deep footing (i.e. use of gravel under the "wall") and use of loose fitting stone/concrete. I did not want to go "solid" with weep holes as the total length will be around 400', albeit much of that under 3' in height. The purpose of the wall (as mentioned in my original post) is to level the property to the end of selling it as commercial. My house is a bastardized Frank Lloyd Wright knock-off built in the mid 1950s. The interstate came through and is just a few hundred feet from the property which adjoins the service road in a major metro area within a block of a new convention center supposedly going up within a year. The property has many, many large trees that I have begun taking down. It is large enough for a McDonalds (boy do we need more of those!), or other small commercial use needing good visibility from the freeway (I-70). I have been advised by brokers that leveling it, putting in retaining walls & tearing the house down!! will maximize its price (it will be priced by the square foot!). To Macher: the reason I did not want to go with a slope along the edges is to increase usable square footage. In any event, I guess I will have to bite the bullet and hire an engineer (as many have wisely suggested). I am expecting delivery on a new TC40 with loader and backhoe in a few weeks. So, next year I can work on it without having to rent equipment, trying to use my Farmall (recently sold) as a piece of compact construction equipment, etc. Again, thanks to everyone who responded and for the advice. John

 

[yooperdave]

Hi John,

Couldn't the buyer of the property put in the retaining wall after a final game plan has been designed and documented?

Not knowing what the future buyer intends to do might waste your resources. They may have a different idea than you in terms of laying everything out.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dave: yes, but when you're selling stuff the "prettier" it looks the better. Also, if the walls are already there it would be one less thing for the buyer to mess with. Any commercial use would involve retaining walls to maximize usable square footage so it would be worthwhile for any buyer no matter what the intended use. Of course, I could just level it and use steep grading along the edges (as someone else suggested here & which I briefly considered) but that would reduce usable area by thousands of sq ft. Since I have (or will have shortly) equipment on site anyway, why not do it myself? If a prospective buyer can "move-in" with the walls already there the whole property should be worth $1.00 or more extra per squage foot. As long as my cost is less than $15-$20k I will come out well ahead. Thanks. Happy New year. John

 

[WVBill]

John:

I'm in agreement with Dave.

<font color=blue>"when you're selling stuff the "prettier" it looks the better.'</font color=blue> is absolutely true if the most likely use of the property is residential.

But if the most likely use is commercial as you've indicated (and based on your described location), I would think a potential buyer/developer would rather see the property in it's "native" form. If I were McDonalds and considering your property I think I would rather deal with putting up my own retaining wall (or maybe just cutting into the bank and putting up a 2 story restraunt) than trying to figure out if the brand new retaining wall you put up is going to support my drive-thru lane.

Of course if you've got real estate brokers telling you different then maybe they're seeing something I'm not.

 

[bgott]

You might not want to mess with it. You might open yourself up to liability problems later. You might also check into liability insurance for just this job so you're covered in event of a boo -boo. When they build commercial buildings they do a lot of ground stabilization and compaction. If your wall wasn't built just right those vibratory compactors they use could blow the wall out and they would probably sue you over it if they had to rebuild it. Those compactors do some serious shaking. I was 15 feet up a ladder one time drilling a hole in a wall for lights when they started compacting the driveway 75' away and it almost knocked me off the ladder. If your wall wasn't just right it would definitely would move with one of those running near by.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Afternoon Micromike,

You asked about <A target="_blank" HREF=http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/wroughtnharv/vwp?.dir=/ben+brook&.src=ph&.dnm=MVC-001F.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/wroughtnharv/lst%3f%26.dir=/ben%2bbrook%26.src=ph%26.view=t>this kind of wall</A>?

This wall about fifteen hundred feet long cost over a million dollars. The process I understand is proprietory. All I did was build in place the barrier rail on top.

The way it's made is three foot diameter piers were drilled sixty feet deep on eight foot centers. These were filled with concrete and steel. The dirt was removed and as it was the wall was poured in place. It was anchored to the piers.

These are not put together blocks but concrete poured into forms that give the appearance of stone work. The concrete is colored. One of the things that is impressive about this particular wall is how well the color matches through out the length of the wall. Especially when you consider the truck pulls up with regular concrete, probably six sack or better. Then they add the color to each truck load as it arrives.

On the telephone poles. I haven't seen anyone mention the hazards of working with them when it comes to getting burned. The creosote will burn you like a sunburn from heck and back. I shudder to think what it does to the lungs.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Brad: The "theory" is to maximize my input (especially having just bought a new TC40 w-hoe/loader) in order to add value. You are, of course, correct in that a particular buyer might have specific uses. However, I did run a "test" ad (i.e. trial ballon) a few months ago. The responses seemed to indicate maximum usable sq footage was important (one guy was contemplating moving his used car lot to get much better exposure). I have not approached any large companies who might have a use for it. Regarding building their structure into a hill, there might be a problem regarding the issue of set backs, although I guess a variance could be obtained. Parking running to the very edge is no problem, even over a 5' utility easement on the east side.
Brad: Naturally, liability waivers for everything from lead based paint to buried nuclear waste would have to be in any sale contract. Also, I had planned to compact along the walls using a small compactor-whether these are heavy enough I can't say, but, they are used occasionally for compacting graves (to reduce/avoid settling). So far as I know, there has not been a problem crushing/shattering the vaults/concrete boxes under the compacted ground. But . . . you may be right. Frankly, that is one item I had not considered. Maybe the compactor I was planning on renting isn't big enough, and a big one would simply knock any wall down. Ugh, what a thought! Also, Brad, your profile shows you have a TN65. How do you like it? Of all the tractors I looked at I liked the TN series the best. I ended up with a smaller NH though partly because of cost and partly because I figured 35 PTO HP would handle everything ok. The TN series offers an optional hydraulic pump at 16 gph which is impressive, also, I really liked the lay-out/ergonomics etc on the TN.
thanks for the imput. Frankly, I am beginning to wonder if I should rethink my strategy. hope no one celebrated too much last night. John

 

[Anonymous Poster]

John: thanks for ref to alanblock web site. finally had chance to check it. they have bunch of drawings in autocad format (which I can use since I have Autocad). but, from what others have been suggesting, I wonder if this type of system will hold up for "commercial" use. Anyway, will download their stuff. this looks as easy as the tele pole idea and more permanent, albeit more money (although, as someone has mentioned, no reason the concept couldn't been used for self cast blocks-I have done some experimental casting of wall blocks). the max height is probably 6-7' more/less so it shouldn't require 3'-4' dia reinforced columns down to bed rock-it doesn't need to support a multi story office building!!!, only keep compacted dirt from sliding downhill when an automobile (or similar) rests on it. ground loading near the wall shouldn't be over 50 psi at most. John

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Your problem is that most companies like McDonalds, BK, or any other company that is going to invest in a building will not build on new fill unless their contractor put the fill in. Country Fair put in a new gas station right next to a Pizza Hut on 20 and 60 in Fredonia. Before they built, since it was a ravine, they excavated the topsoil off of the area. Then had their contractors come in and put up a fairly large block retaining wall and compacted the entire area (not just along the wall) every foot. They had to do this to ensure the ground would not settle once they started building the gas station and market on top of the fill. The little tamper you are talking about using will not do the job well since it can only compact around 6" at a time and even then it takes a lot of work to cover the area you are talking with a 18" wide compactor. I understand what you are hoping for but it isn't worth the expense and if anything, might devalue the lot if the company has to tear out your wall because it doesn't meet their specs. If you want to sell, sell the lot the way it is and get the most money for the least work. Otherwise, talk to some large contractors in your area who work in this specific field and see what they advise you to do. Good luck.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I know of at least 3 commercial properties in my area that have used the Alan Block for retaining walls. Western PA is very hilly and there are many applications for retaining walls.

There is a Kohl's department store not far from me that has a 60 foot high wall about 400-500 foot long. I believe they used the Versa-Lock product. About six months ago a large section of the wall collapsed. Since you plan to sell the property for commercial use I think you should have an engineer design the wall and specify the material to use. My wife works for a surveying and engineering company and they frequently are asked to testify in court cases where retaining walls have collapsed on commercial property. Usually the court rules that the wall was installed improperly and the construction company has to eat the cost of re-installing the wall.

John