river pump suggestions ?

[bcarwell]

I need to pump water from a shallow (4 feet deep) river up a steep bank of about 150 feet of head to a tank for 6 cows (e.g. 100 -200 gallons a DAY) I'm thinking a horizontal submersible well pump would be the way to go unless somebody thinks otherwise. Could anyone suggest any pump that might fit the bill ? Tnx.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

1) Don't try to pump out of the river channel. Dig a sump to the side of the channel with a ditch to the river. Screen the sump so debris washing downriver doesn't get into your pump station.

2) Allow for floods and droughts. If you choose a simple centrifugal pump, mount it on a float, or mount it above flood height with a long suction. Centrifugal pumps push water a lot better than they suck. You will get better performance mounting it at water level. A submersible has to stay submerged, so dig your sump deep enough that it is always under water. Don't forget to screen the top of the sump.

3) Make the whole thing easily removable. One good flood will fill the sump with gravel and mud. This is easier than it sounds, because it won't take much of a pump to pump 200 gallons a day. A quarter horse motor running a roller pump would do it.

 

[PILOON]

Also place a check valve shortly after the pump so that water will not flow back and 'unscrew' the impeller blade (Blades).
A tip provided me by a company pump rep. I gather this is especially important on sump type pumps.
I also agree a 1/3 hp any type should be OK but go for largest diameter line to reduce friction. (yes there is friction loss in water pipe lines and you do say 150ft)
Check pump sites fo specs; i.e. Groundfoss, RedJacket, Monarch etc.
Using a regular sump pump float switch installed in the tank (providing the power source is near the tank) could give you 'automatic' filling feature.
That style float switch could contol any type pump.

 

[RobertN]

0.434lbs/ft. For structure firefighting, expect each floor to be 10', so ~5psi head loss per floor.

150' of vertical means 65psi of head pressure at the pump. That is not even counting losses for friction.

That is a fair amount of pressure to consider.

I also agree a 1/3 hp any type should be OK but go for largest diameter line to reduce friction. (yes there is friction loss in water pipe lines and you do say 150ft)

 

[Larry Caldwell]

0.434lbs/ft. For structure firefighting, expect each floor to be 10', so ~5psi head loss per floor.

150' of vertical means 65psi of head pressure at the pump. That is not even counting losses for friction.

That is a fair amount of pressure to consider.

It's actually closer to 75 psi if you consider any line loss at all. That's why I mentioned high head pumps. The horsepower is not really relevant, but the pump design is important. High head water pumps normally have multiple stages, each one boosting water pressure. If you want to get a lot of water, you need a lot of horsepower, but this guy only needs 200 gallons a day, which is just a trickle. A 1 gpm pump would do that much in a little over 3 hours. Running 24/7, 1/6 gpm (a little over a pint) would do it.

 

[RobertN]

0.434*150=65.1 head pressure That is just to get 0.0psi at 150' vertical.

Yes, there will be loss over and above that value, even at the low flows needed by the OP. I used to do landscape irrigation; 3/4", 1", 1-1/4" Schedule 40 pipe has a lot of friction loss even at relatively low pressure and flow. Rainbird has a friction loss calculator for most popular plastic pipe that may be useful.

I would fear the cost of the pump, and also the cost of running power to the pump. Niether will be cheap.

So at a minimum:
- Low flow high pressure pump
- 150'+ pipe
- 150'+ power line from tank to pump,
- additional power from source to tank

My other concern would be the legal water access rights to the "river".

http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/resources/FrictionLossCharts.htm

 

[Egon]

Consider a Ram pump??

 

[DAY]

Consider a Ram pump??

A ram needs a drop (head) to function- even a couple of feet will pump water "uphill". Once again, "use the google"

 

[Mace Canute]

For your situation, a diaphragm pump might be the better choice rather than centrifugal type pumps.

 

[RobertN]

You mean run a PTO pump off your Ram that has a Cummins?

Consider a Ram pump??

 

[wdchyd]

Consider a Ram pump??

Like this....YouTube - Williamson Ram Pump - Kevin Smith Steelworkers version

 

[jbooth]

Since you don't need a lot of volumm, I think a very low HP piston pump would work very well. I have posted a picture of a pump similiar to what we used to pump water about 1/4 mile. We didn't have as high head pressure as you report but the old pump was bullet proof. Ours was run with a 1/4 or 1/3 HP electric motor. It could be run on a timer or a float swith in your stock tank. I looked on the internet and couldn't find anything as simple/primitive other than 2 like the one in the picture. Both are/were listed on E-Bay.

 

[Darren]

You may want to look at a rife sling pump. They use the river's velocity to lift water as high as 82' at over 600 gpd depending on pipe size and the velocity of the river. They don't need power and they aren't bothered by floods. You'd need another pump to get the additional 75'. Years ago I considered using several sling pumps along with a series of ram pumps set at increasing elevations to move water 300' up a hill to a tank. You'd waste a lot of water but the setup wouldn't need power from any type of motor or engine. Water and gravity does it all. The downside, other than cost, is the ram pumps would have to be protected against freezing in the winter.

"The Rife River Pump will pump all year through flash floods and frost. In areas with severe winters and danger of damage from floating ice-floes, the Rife River Pump must be removed from operation."

Rife River Pumps Specifications

 

[Egon]

You mean run a PTO pump off your Ram that has a Cummins?

Robert, what I meant was putting the rear wheels on a roller that drive's a really long grain auger that's lifting the water.

 

[RobertN]

But think of the water that Cummins could pump

Robert, what I meant was putting the rear wheels on a roller that drive's a really long grain auger that's lifting the water.

 

[schmism]

do i dare mention the legal issues with pulling water out of a river.... :laughing:

even the cheep HF 1hp 1" pump lists a head of 165'.... 75psi.... I have one and know the stock cuttoff on it is 60 id be willing to try it and turn up the pressure switch...

 

[boggen]

150 feet is pretty hefty height.

i would be looking at "well pumps" there better designed, to be submersible. and push water up long vertical distances.

you could call a local "well driller" for your area. and ask them cost of a pump.

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what ""Larry Caldwell" first post after yours noted, about digging a channel. (count me in same remarks)

there is just to much stuff that gets washed down even a small creek let alone a river. that will plug a pump up quick.

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you might want to check into a "piston driven" air pump. or wind mill that pumps air. and using an "air lift"

there are some DIY well drilling doings. that might work nicely for an air lift driven well.

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150 head. does not give a lot of details. any chance for pictures of area? and actual vertical distance between top of river water to top of tank? along with horizontal distance?

is this going up a rock face? or you running pipe across your property were the pin is setup for the cattle?

 

[Egon]

Robert, I've just got an anemic 180 HP. Cumins so I'd just get laughed at by some fellows. By the way the grain auger is used as a water pump to fill chemical sprayer tanks. Park it beside a dugout filled with water and its a quick fill.

For the original poster: for actually pumping a beside the stream cistern or a driven well point may be well worth the consideration.