ROAD MAINTENANCE/EQUIPMENT with PICS

[Obed]

Believe you me......I know all to well the differing opinions on road building. I see people put limestone on their driveways and access roads every year.........year after year and it just keeps going out of sight. Theres a simple solution to that problem,but you just can't change anyones mind.

dirtworksequip,
Your road looks great. I'm new to road building. I just posted pictures on TBN of some road repair I recently did. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/92932-cut-box-blade-newbie-road.html However, I need to add gravel. I was thinking I would add some larger gravel first, then put crushed gravel over it.

Do you think this is a bad idea?

Thanks much,
Ken

 

[dirtworksequip]

Thomas, I like to grade it up when it is slightly wet. Its been rainy here lately. The road was actually wetter than I like it to be when I graded it up, but as you said you need some moisture or it doesn't work or compact as nice.The one thing about 304 crusher run slag, is once it drys out its like concrete.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Obed,There is much debate and opinions on how to properly construct a road.
I'm sure I'm going to get FLAMED on this one. Most people will tell you to put down some large sized stone (4's)first. Run that in and then top with either 57's or crusher run.

Here's a simple test. Put some of the large stone down on one side of the road in the thickness you want and a pile of crusher run on the other side in the same thickness. Now use the vehicle of choice. ( dozer,track loader,excavator,tractor,tandem truck or pickup ....whatever) Now run any of those machines over the two piles. See which one holds up better. I'll bet ya $1,000 its going to be the crusher run. Why..........because it is spreading the weight of the vehicle out over a bigger area and hence not going into the ground. On the other hand with the big stone some of the individual stones are taking the load and they are going to be pushed into the subgrade. You don't want that. You just wasted money because that stone is doing almost nothing! Plus it will trap water as I stated before.

My opinion is you can bring me all the big stuff you want and I can show you that you are wasting most of your money. Dump a load of big stuff. Spread it out 6 to 8 inches thick. Now run over it with a small dozer or tandem dump truck. The 4's will push right into the ground at least to the top of the surface. Now top with fine stone. Your done! Thats the way most people do it. The problem with this method is that any voids in between the large stone will trap water and water is the last thing you want in your roadbed.

Now here is my method. Grade your road subgrade to "perfection". That means no low spots to trap water and crowned or pitched to drain.Now use a crusher run material. That is 1-1/2" minus. If will have stone with fines. The fines will bind the stone together.I prefer MILL SLAG as it contains some lime and once wet and rolled in its super hard and the fines don't turn to mud as with a natural stone. SLAG may not be available in your area though.Once it gets wet and rolled in. Once graded have your stone delivered on a dry day when the stone trucks will not make any ruts in the subgrade. If they do those ruts will just make a low spot for water to collect in the subgrade under the stone and cause a soft spot. Which will cause mud to pump up thru the stone. Most people make the mistake of putting down too little stone which also can cause mud to pump thru the stone. Depending on how much traffic and what size vehicles will be using the road will determine how much you should put down. I would go with a minimun of 5 to 6 inches.

The most critical part is your subgrade. Keep it dry and and rut free and you will have a road that will hold up to the heavest trucks and give you years of service. The big payoff is if done correctly you will put less stone on the road in the years to come,thus saving you a pile of money. I'm not saying you will never have to get another load of stone,because you will have to add to it in places here and there over the years.

To sum it up. The dryer you can keep your road the better it will be. Which means it will cost you less.

I've got my CATERPILLAR FLAME SUIT on. So the big stone guys......FLAME ON!!!! I can feel the heat,but I'm not getting burnt.

 

[Obed]

dirtworksequip,
You make a really good case for your technique. I remember when my dad had his 700 foot driveway built years ago. The gravel kept sinking into ground leaving mud. He would have more gravel added and it would sink into the ground again. He never added crusher run.
Obed

 

[dirtworksequip]

Heres even a simple test anyone can do. Take a coffee can or 5 gal bucket full of big stone (4's)or straight sized stone.(57's) Place it on the ground. Do the same with a can full of crusher run. Now stomp the stone with your feet as hard as you can. You will push the 4's and 57's into the ground and beyond.Especially if the ground is wet or damp. Now stomp the crusher run. You will quickly see that the crusher run because of the fines will not shove into the grond as the other stone did. Its simple physics. The crusher run disapates the weight load better and therefore holds up better. It will do the same on your road.

I would have hated to think how much more stone I would have had to use on the 3,000+ feet of road that we built if I had gone with 4's and 57's as most people do. I'm guessing it would have been a 3rd to half more additional stone and I still wouldn't have the road I have today. Plus the annual maintenance would require more stone added every year.

 

[Nat]

I'll back you up on the crusher run myself. I don't know about anywhere else but here in NC that is just the same way I've built many roads, and I've done grading for years. I have seen many comercial buildings built and have never seen them put larger stone down under a concrete pour, but have seen 1000s of tons of crusher run under slabs. You hit the nail right on the head with preping the bed perfect first, good grading, the right moisture, then dumped and spread crusher run, and the less moving after dumping the better. After it has been packed a while then do the fine grading. Later, Nat

 

[Renze]

What they do here in Holland, is dumping rough crushed debris (rock is not available as a natural resource in our river delta country) from the crusherm in the 1 to 2" size. Then they grade and spread crusher sand (rough sand, granular size varies from sand to 3/8" ) on top of the rock bed. The crusher dust will work its way into the rock bed, locking the rocks in place. Bigger rocks do distribute the wheel pressure better than just fine gravel, but i do agree that the stones should be locked in place with fine gravel.

In case you dont agree with me, study archeology of old Roman roads, the Romans used various sizes of rock, gravel and sand to build roads, and those have survived until today...

 

[JoeinTX]

On miles and miles of ranch and oilfield road over the years we have generally used what we call "caliche" or "chat"........quarried limestone around 2-3" in diameter. It's fantastic stuff that will harden like pavement with natural moisture and traffic.

Only recently have I seen the large rock base/small rock topping used....in particular a project across the highway from me. Im my humble experience, layering and packing the smaller chat-like material does the better job. It is very resilient to weight and water and it binds together short of nothing. The larger material does not bind....it "wanders" and mushes about. Caliche genuinely cements, via the varying sizes of rock and the sand-like material it creates naturally, into a better base.


Hey, just get several loads of the smaller caliche and pack the Devil out of it. It will have a uniform base and resilience throughout that stands up to pressure better than anything short of hardtop pavement.

 

[dirtworksequip]

One other thing. Once it gets rolled in I like to use the landscape rake to pull some stone back onto the roadway from the edges. This seems to help from washing. If its a smooth surface a hard rain runs down the road and will rut it out, but by pulling some stone back onto the road the stpme slows the flow and prevents it from washing.

 

[Farmerford]

I just joined and learned a lot from your posts on roadbuilding. Thanks for the info.

I need to build a driveway across a rolling pasture that has 6 to 12" of sandy loam topsoil over hard clay. Traffic will be only a couple of cars per day. I know the topsoil needs to come off, but what do I do with the 6-12" deep roadbed that it creates? Shouldn't I build it up before putting in the stone (crusher run)? If so, should I have clay hauled in to fill the trench? Or perhaps I could put shallow ditches along each side and use the clay from them to build up the roadbed. In either case, how high should I build up the bed? I plan to put in 6" of crusher run.

Thanks again for your advice.