Road Trail Building advice

[woodlandfarms]

So, I know the answer is a Bulldozer. This being said, I would love to get some advice on how to build a road / trail with what I have.

The big thing is I am unsure of is how to approach the fairly steep grade. I am going to ask permission from my neighbor to put the trail partly onto his property but in case he does not...

What I have is a 60 HP Hydraulic tractor that can do severe slopes, a 72" box blade, a bucket, and a quasi backhoe....

I am wondering how other people have made a road on such an incline with what they had and how they did it. I assume I am going to start from the top and work my way down, but what method works the best. Bucket it out, or try and box blade it?

Oh in the topo picture, 1" is about 100 feet. The red is the existing road, the blue what I want to accomplish...

Look forward to any advice.

 

[Egon]

You can start at either end. The bottom is preferable if you enough tractor to dig easily. I have to work from the top down to give my Toy Tractor the help of gravity as it's quite small.

Use the bucket and establish a level area, then dig and side dump making sure you keep the working base level side to side. Finish off with the box blade. Use caution as you side dump as you do not want to go to far forward and over the lip.

This is basically how a dozer with angle blade would do the job on really steep side slopes. It can be interesting to see one have part of the slope fail and he goes for a hundred foot or so slide down the hill.

 

[jmfox]

I like to use a slope and cut the drive with a side to side angle to shed water. As to the machine, I like tracks for consistent cuts. If you're adding stone, an excavator (backhoe) is an option, but it's slow. Focus on the water, and make sure the road bed is in subsoil.

jmf

 

[Treemonkey1000]

You might just take a drive on one of the local back hiking roads or logging roads to see how they scooped out their road. Given of course they had bigger equipment. Is there any chance of moving out a little from the steeper slopes shown on your map to less agressive inclines? The other guy mentioned watch for signs of water that you would have to manage for drainage.

 

[AD18]

Another thing to keep in mind. How deep is the soil on that slope? In some the areas down river, the Lewis River for those not fortunate enough to live elsewhere, the bedrock is quite close to the surface. I found this out the expensive way when my polebarn was being built. The rock outcroping a 150' from the site is part of the ridge that runs under my shop. The excavator broke a tooth on his bucket when he hit it.$$
Also remember we get a lot of rain the first week of June, I'd make sure the ground is dry. Good luck and have fun!

 

[ampsucker]

looks like from the existing road you're climbing 50-100 feet in elevation but it's over several thousand feet of distance, then following the ridgeline pretty much from there.

you didn't mention what your final goal is. is this just a hiking and 4 wheeling trail or something more?

for a gradual but steady climb without sharp turns, it's very important to crown the road so the water flows off it into the ditch on either side and the road itself doesn't become one big ditch. when you remove alot of vegetation, you also remove resistance to water flow. your road can easily become a river in heavy rains. plan on buying some culvert pipe wide enough to go under the road bed if you have locations that require this.

if keeping it woodsy, i would recommend not disturbing the soil more than necessary. cut the trees and brush and leave the stumps and root balls intact. plant a cover crop you can bush hog and erosion won't be too bad. you can drive on it, walk on it, 4-wheel, etc. brush killer will kill the stumps and you can fill in any holes as they rot away. you can always add crushed rock at any time to rough areas and larger rock to stabilize mud zones.

if you want something nicer, you should probably bulldoze the root balls out and grade it all down to eliminate sink holes as the tree roots rot away, pack it, lay white rock with a vibrating roller and then chip and seal or asphalt. hope you have deep pockets if that is where you're headed!

no matter what you do, a good ditch and a proper crown is your friend.

amp

 

[3RRL]

Well, if it was me, I would use your boxblade to rough and that road.
Do you have top and tilt?
How strong are your lower lift arms? They will need to be very strong so as not to bend them in the manner I'm suggesting.

Getting a level surface on a slope with the fel bucket will be a little pit of a task since you can't tilt the bucket when your tractor is on the side slope. I would start where your existing road is. Have you ever seen how a bull dozer cuts a road into a hill side? They start on the hill side and tilt the blade so It's sort of level. The dozer is tilted a little, but the blade is level. Then they take a cut out of the hillside using a "scalloping" method.

So they take a cut into the hill and turn out of it, pushing the dirt from the high side to the low side. I would use the boxblade cutting in reverse by tilting the side link so your boxblade like the dozer blade. Once you get a level spot you can use the FEL bucket or keep doing the scalloping with the boxblade. I have done many roads and trails like that. Just be aware that your lower drag links need to be stout enough to handle it. I bent mine but reinforced them and now use that method all the time.

 

[blagg]

Wear your seat belt

 

[woodlandfarms]

I have the ability to tilt my box blade by about 15 degrees or so. PT is not a dirt tractor like what you guys have, it is more like a skip loader than the guts tractor. But, it can move dirt so I will give it a try.

Thanks for all the advice. Will take some pix as this is one of my summer projects...

Carl

 

[jdmar]

I agree with ampsucker...what are doing with this road? How you will use it makes a big difference on how you make it. You also look to have a 50 foot drop(rise) in the first 150-175 foot of road from the red area...that is steep! I know you already said you don't want this answer...but...

Rent a dozer for one day. You can rent a smaller dozer (if your trees aren't huge) for about $250 a day around here. You could get at least a Case 550/650 or Cat3. You get a six way blade and all your contouring can be done in just a few passes. The learning curve on the new machines is very steep...one handle does all your blade work. They are MUCH more stable on slope than anything resembling a tractor. Contour the area, run with a blade tip next to each side to make a ditch, spread gravel if needed, then get home safely and have a well deserved cool one. We want to hear from you again...and those slopes are steep!

Sorry for giving the answer you didn't want...I just think it is the safest and much less risk/wear-n-tear on you and your machine. I would be happy to help...but driving me and my little dozer from ohio to you would cost a bundle! Let us know more details...and take some pics...
Peter

 

[woodlandfarms]

I am going to get back up north in the next few weeks. I am going to walk the area, and look at a few other issues... It may make sense for me to open my wallet for a Dozer.....

 

[DRL]

Just another thought. Peter pointed out that the first of your new road is steep. If you don't use the red part of the road and start over you can get a lot more gradual slope. Something like this.
DRL

 

[DRL]

It sure is fun coming up with ideas that use other peoples money.
How about a pond with the trail going across the dam?
DRL

 

[woodlandfarms]

It sure is fun coming up with ideas that use other peoples money.
How about a pond with the trail going across the dam?
DRL

View attachment 103188

And then we can put in koi, a water fall, build some seats..... Glad you offered to come up and help out...

 

[EddieWalker]

So, I know the answer is a Bulldozer. This being said, I would love to get some advice on how to build a road / trail with what I have.

The big thing is I am unsure of is how to approach the fairly steep grade. I am going to ask permission from my neighbor to put the trail partly onto his property but in case he does not...

What I have is a 60 HP Hydraulic tractor that can do severe slopes, a 72" box blade, a bucket, and a quasi backhoe....

What is a quasi backhoe?

I have both a dozer and a backhoe. When I got the dozer, I thought that it was the way to go. I just pointed it in a direction, and pushed everything out of the way. It's great fun until something breaks!!!

Then it took months or even years to clean up the mess. If you have trees to clear, the backhoe is a much better choice!!! I no longer clear land with the dozer. I use the backhoe and after I get some trees on the ground, I take them to the burn pile. What would take the dozer a day to clear, takes the bachoe a week to do. But in that week, it's all done, and I don't have to spend months cleaning it up from the destruction and tangle created by the dozer.

If your trails are already clear, then the dozer is great for shaping dirt and cutting drainage ditches. Since you don't have one, the backhoe does a good job too, it just takes more time. Dig from the high side and put it on the low side.

Eddie

 

[woodlandfarms]

Here is the pic of my backhoe setup. It is like a Skip Loader, you have to turn the body of the tractor to do your left to right dumping, and the reach is limited. But it works, quite well.

I have not tired to backhoe up trees yet. We have TONS of Alders that need to go (small, nothing more than a 5" trunk".

These are going to be fresh horse / quad / walking / access to the back 40 with tractor kind of trails..

Yeah, Dozers are a mess, but I am so darn impatient. Definetly a Gen Xer.. I sometimes think I am one of those morons on those tv ads hollering I want it and I want it now.

Here is some video - It was the wifes first time but you get the idea

YouTube - back hoe

And these two pix are of the backhoe and an extension I built to remove blackberries. There is a new version of that coming this summer for sure...

 

[Egon]

Hey, you have the perfect machine to use the bucket for side hill trail building!

 

[rimshot]

I am currently building my road/trail with my Kioti CK20 TLB. For me,the less ......the better. When i started the road of course the stumps were removed as they found themselves in the boundary of my right of way. That of course made a mess but I didn't stop there. Next, I carefully scraped all the top soil, humous and sticks off the gravel base road. Of course, I had to remove the stumps, but removal of the humous was an option. For the occasional driving a tractor or a pick up or a four wheel ATV over my trail, the humus is a good enough base for now due to the root structure. I can alwlays replace it if it wears away with gravel. In the meantime this road is good enough for the small amount of traffic it shall endure w/o damaging all the rest of the tree roots humus removal of humus would involve.

rim