Rolled my Yanmar EX3200 and have questions

TDR · Aug 14, 2011

It was a stupid move. I wanted to move one more bucket of dirt before dark and my angle was wrong. With the incline to steep the tractor rolled over to lay on it's right hand (air intake) side. I did upright it within 5 minutes and
tried to start it. It only clicked so as I had read on this website...leave it sit for 24 hours. The next night it clicked twice and then started. It billowed major smoke but allowed me to get the tractor back up to the barn. I have started it each of the past four nights and although the smoke has decreased it still smokes severely and has little power when I test drive it The only things i have done is to check fluids, remove and clean the small amount of oil in the air cleaner tubes and also cracked the injectors while running (suggested from another thread). The injector cracking changed the motor RPM on all 3 cylinders. The tractor has only cosmetic damage so it seems it should be related to something that has improperly relocated...like fluids.
I have very little experience with diesels and at a loss of what to try. Could the glow plugs be covered in oil? Where are the glow plugs located on this engine and what do they look like? It acts just like a carbureted gas engine would act with a fouled plug....but it smokes as well. The smoke is blue and has a very strong diesel fuel smell that burns your eyes.
Thanks very much to anyone who can help.

art · Aug 14, 2011

Lets see from tractor roll overs I've seen broken cams bent connecting rods, bent push rods broken rockers and a whole host of other issues.

You probably even have oil in the exhaust which needs to be burnt off.

dex3361 · Aug 14, 2011

Since you have run the engine any damage that will be done has already been done. i would check the air filter and see if it is oil saturated and restricting the air flow. Hope no major damage was done.:thumbsup:

arsenix2001 · Aug 14, 2011

Yeah... Usually you pop the injectors out BEFORE you start the engine and turn it by hand to check for any hydrolocking. It is what it is now... Just check for fluid level/contamination.

TDR · Aug 15, 2011

Thanks for the support and suggestions. I will change all of the fluids this weekend. I am still curious if anyone can tell me where the glow plugs reside on this ex3200 diesel engine. I have never seen a glow plug, what does it look like?

TDR · Aug 16, 2011

Tonight I changed the oil in case there was diesel fuel in it. The oil was pure and did not have any smell of Fuel. Started it after changing and no difference. Still a lot of blue smoke and sounding like only 2 of 3 cylinders firing. Pulled the 3 injectors out. All 3 had a lot of carbon buildup so my hopes soared that maybe an injector was plugged. Cleaned all 3 and reinstalled. Started it up and a slight improvement in power but still feels like 2 of 3 cylinders and it is still smoking. I ran it for 20 minutes and no change. Based on the input from everyone the smoke has to be oil being introduced to a cylinder (ring?) and
the miss might be a bent valve? It breaks my heart to tear an engine down with 60 hours of operation so i will wait to see if any one else has suggestions of what i can look for first. Do you take compression tests on diesels from the injection hole with a hand held gauge? What should the compression be?

whodat526 · Aug 16, 2011

start the tractor and crack each injector line one at a time and u should have a change in how the engine sounds if one does change the sound like the others do then u know u have a problem in that cylinder

Carykong · Aug 16, 2011

I would be surprised if you damaged your motor on this rollover on its side. What is your answer to Dex's question? Is your air intake clear?

5030 · Aug 16, 2011

I doubt it as well contrary to Art's comment. His comment is all about collateral damage from an engine running inverted and starved for lubricationg oil. If this engine had that occuring, it would not rtart and run and not run for 20 minutes....and it would be making strange noises, none of which appear to be occuring, but then we can only guess as the poster is somewhat vague.

I suspect an oil saturated air filter or some bockage in the intake tract. Both will cause heavy smoke, irregular running and poor power.

DavidNPro · Aug 17, 2011

I suppose that when you tried to start it after getting it right side up, the cylinders were still full of oil. Thus you could be looking at a bent connecting rod, valve etc. I would certainly rule out the easy stuff like air filters, oil in the wrong places, etc before tearing into the motor itself.

TDR · Aug 17, 2011

Hi guys, Thanks for contributing. I agree with the minimal risk of mechanical damage being the cause of the poor performance and smoking. I still prefer to believe the relocation of fluids is impacting the operation. However the continuation of the smoke after all of these nights of running gives me worries. It does not appear to be burning away like one would hope. The smoking has almost completely disappeared at idle but at mid throttle it has stayed mostly the same as the first night....very heavy and rich smelling of diesel. It is almost like it is running WAY to rich rather than oil in the cylinders.
Any thoughts on too much fuel rather than oil causing the rich smoke?
What controls the amount of fuel?

I had cracked the injectors earlier which did produce fuel from each line as well as a noticable reduction in RPM from each individual cylinder. Although I had removed the entire air cleaner tube, filters and assembly I did not get into the actual intake itself. I will do so tomorrow night and post the results.

cowski · Aug 18, 2011

how much time do you have on the engine after you rolled it?i would run it a lot before i took anything else off the engine.i would do one thing that is blow the fuel line out back toward the tank.when you rolled it anything like dirt or water was washed off the bottom of the tank and could of been sucked into the fuel line when it was cranked.this can cause the blue smoke problem.

TTTTTT · Aug 18, 2011

Did the same a few years ago. No colatteral damage. No issues for 2 years now. Can't believe in all the panick you didn't get pics and high quality video

These thread detail the fun

'The Big Flip"
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/145119-big-flip.html

Starting After 'The Big Flip
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/145120-df354-starting-after-big-flip.html

Great you got it going without too many issues:thumbsup:

Dave

5030 · Aug 20, 2011

TDR said:
Hi guys, Thanks for contributing. I agree with the minimal risk of mechanical damage being the cause of the poor performance and smoking. I still prefer to believe the relocation of fluids is impacting the operation. However the continuation of the smoke after all of these nights of running gives me worries. It does not appear to be burning away like one would hope. The smoking has almost completely disappeared at idle but at mid throttle it has stayed mostly the same as the first night....very heavy and rich smelling of diesel. It is almost like it is running WAY to rich rather than oil in the cylinders.
Any thoughts on too much fuel rather than oil causing the rich smoke?
What controls the amount of fuel?
I had cracked the injectors earlier which did produce fuel from each line as well as a noticable reduction in RPM from each individual cylinder. Although I had removed the entire air cleaner tube, filters and assembly I did not get into the actual intake itself. I will do so tomorrow night and post the results.

The injection pump and only the injection pump, however, any restriction in the intake of air will cause smoking as well.

Johndeere3720 · Aug 20, 2011

Originally I would think that you had oil seep up into the combustion chamber but now i think that the timing could be off on your injection pump. That or you have a bent valve which is possible.

TDR · Aug 21, 2011

Hi guys, finally had a chance to get back to look at the tractor. I have pulled both the air cleaner assembly and the entire muffler/pipe assembly. It is now pure air in and open exhaust out. When I run the motor it "pulses" the smoke out as if it is one cylinder is the culprit. I do not see where there could be any air intake restrictions. So it must be down to the two final possibilities of too much fuel to a cylinder or that cylinder has a compression problem? Johndeere3720...how do I check the injection pump timing? Also, All of my compression gauges are for gas engines... Is there another way to check compression or do i need to buy a new gauge? What should the gauge read up to?

Short Game · Aug 21, 2011

The pulsing makes me think of the governor. It would probably smoke if it were repeatedly getting spiked with fuel and then alternately starved.

Don87 · Aug 21, 2011

TDR said:
Hi guys, finally had a chance to get back to look at the tractor. I have pulled both the air cleaner assembly and the entire muffler/pipe assembly. It is now pure air in and open exhaust out. When I run the motor it "pulses" the smoke out as if it is one cylinder is the culprit. I do not see where there could be any air intake restrictions. So it must be down to the two final possibilities of too much fuel to a cylinder or that cylinder has a compression problem? Johndeere3720...how do I check the injection pump timing? Also, All of my compression gauges are for gas engines... Is there another way to check compression or do i need to buy a new gauge? What should the gauge read up to?

The pump timing did not change when the tractor tipped.

You need a compression gauge made for diesel engines to check compression. A gauge that reads to 1,000 is needed.

But I would advise against starting that tractor again, because your bent valve is going to snap off and take the piston out also, along with snapping the tip off the injector.

banjodunn · Aug 22, 2011

G'day as posted your inj pump timing CANNOT change due to the rollover:thumbsup: However you may have an issue with compression or valve.
1. Lift the rocker cover and check all the valve clearances an exceesive clearance can mean a bent valve OR it may just mean it was never adjusted properly from new

2. If the clearances are not in spec then adjust

3. If the clearances are within spec then compression test as said earlier you need a proper tester for diesels and i would expect to see around the 350 to 450 psi mark (sorry don but 1000 a bit hi starter would never turn it over

). You want to see no more than a 10 % variance between the cylinders, if you only have 60 hrs on the engine then i would not bother doing a wet and dry test as yous rings should be sealing good at this stage, just do a dry test

Try this and report back

Jon

Don87 · Aug 22, 2011

banjodunn said:
G'day as posted your inj pump timing CANNOT change due to the rollover:thumbsup: However you may have an issue with compression or valve.
1. Lift the rocker cover and check all the valve clearances an exceesive clearance can mean a bent valve OR it may just mean it was never adjusted properly from new

2. If the clearances are not in spec then adjust

3. If the clearances are within spec then compression test as said earlier you need a proper tester for diesels and i would expect to see around the 350 to 450 psi mark (sorry don but 1000 a bit hi starter would never turn it over). You want to see no more than a 10 % variance between the cylinders, if you only have 60 hrs on the engine then i would not bother doing a wet and dry test as yous rings should be sealing good at this stage, just do a dry test Try this and report back

Jon