Rope suggestions and help

[newbury]

By design, some rope stretches and some does not. I won't use rope to pull down anything. I use either chains and/or wire cable attached to a come along. The come along is nice and slow so I can see how things are going AND I can feel what is happening. I tried to help a neighbor pull out a log with my tractor using climbing rope. I told him that rope was designed to stretch if the climber fell and it was not likely to work but I would go get some chains. He insisted on using the rope which did not work.

I might be paranoid but when I was a kid, I saw two guys cut down huge pine tree in a pine stand next to a trailer. They hooked up a cheap rope to the back of a truck, cut the tree a bit and started driving the truck. I told my dad this was not a good idea since if the rope was not long enough someone was going to die. One of the stupidest things I have seen and I have some seen some really dumb a...ssed stunts. Luckily the rope was long enough but just barely so. These guys might have inspired Dumb and Dumber.

Later,
Dan

If you are going to use rope do two or three things - throw a heavy carpet or something over it part way up so it CAN'T snap back and hit you, measure the trees height and add about 10% for the distance to be away from the tree, use a snatch block if at all possible. Never use the plan that you can run as it falls.

Also if there are ANY other trees around THEY WILL REACH OUT and try to save the tree you are cutting down from falling where you want it to fall. I've seen trees do a 360 on the way down, I'd swear they will jump off the stump and into another tree.

 

[PILOON]

I have a snatch pulley that I chain to a solid tree and 100 ft of 3/4 poly.
Poly can stretch safely about 10% and makes a great bungee when tied to my 4 x 4 or my tractor.
It is a 2 man job, Generally I notch start 2nd cut and hand my helper the chain saw for the finish cut. When I honk he cuts.
I have dropped 6-10" maples and birch in whatever direction I wanted, even once one that was leaning 30 deg and 2 ft from a roof.
One maple actually jumped some 8 ft from where it grew and fell uphill to where it was easy to get out.
Way back I sold strapping and learned the elasticity of various materials so that guided me.
My rope is always kept shielded form UV to conserve the properties.

Naturally many other safety factors need to be observed, like other trees, escape routes etc.

 

[IslandTractor]

This one hadn't been dead very long. Had the fairy hole, but wasn't rotten or hollow yet.
View attachment 392907 View attachment 392908 View attachment 392909

There is one across the driveway that is hollow. all the big limbs have fallen off. But honey bees are using it, so I will let nature take care of it.

If you have the stump bucket, why not break the roots first before pushing? Trouble with getting close to a big tree and pushing is that you don't know how big the root ball is or if there is a single big root that might be under your tractor/device. If the roots on the tractor side of the tree are already cut the odds of the rootball coming up underneath you is much reduced. I understand that with the V417 you can park it further away but I've had some surprises doing essentially the same maneuver with a grapple/FEL pushing about 8-9ft off the ground in front of the tractor. Now I always rip at least once side (pushing side) of a big tree first.

 

[Xfaxman]

If you have the stump bucket, why not break the roots first before pushing? Trouble with getting close to a big tree and pushing is that you don't know how big the root ball is or if there is a single big root that might be under your tractor/device. If the roots on the tractor side of the tree are already cut the odds of the rootball coming up underneath you is much reduced. I understand that with the V417 you can park it further away but I've had some surprises doing essentially the same maneuver with a grapple/FEL pushing about 8-9ft off the ground in front of the tractor. Now I always rip at least once side (pushing side) of a big tree first.

I always try pushing first. If the V417 slides back, then I break some roots.

You are right about the extra room at the front, I don't worry about the tree top breaking and falling on the cab or the root ball coming up, since the V417 does not move when pushing over a tree.

Here is a side view to show what I mean. I put the grapple against the tree, got out, took the picture, stood outside, reached in pushed the extend switch, took the next picture and repeat.


Then got in to pick it up.

 

[Parkanzky]

Also rather than plunge cut, try using some plastic wedges behind the cut to force the tree where you want it, then no ropes are needed unless it is a hard leaning tree and you want it to go backward from the lean. Wedging is best using a second person to keep pounding them in so they are tight all the time while the other person continuously cuts.

In case of leaning trees, make sure you have enough power and weight with the pulling machine to force the tree to go where you want it. It could end up with the puller turned into the pull-ee. That might be a wild ride being pulled backward while hooked onto a falling tree.

My father-in-law wanted to cut a HUGE beech tree that was halfway down a steep creek bank on his property. The two of us together wouldn't have been able to get our arms around it. It was leaning ever so slightly toward the creek.

So first, we pulled the tractor up as close as we could, put the bucket all the way up, put the ~40' extension ladder in the bucket and he he went up as high as he could to tie a choker around the tree. We hooked a crane cable to that. Then, since we knew there was no way we were pulling that tree over, we cut a slot and started pounding in wedges. It felt like we were putting wedges in all day and I was swinging that sledge until my arms were jelly. When we had the wedge opened way up (wedges stacked a few high), it looked like the tree was leaning where we wanted it to go and we thought we'd made enough progress that it would fall up the bank.

We routed the crane cable up the hill, then around a fairly large tree and down a path that ran parallel to the creek. Then we hooked it to his big skid steer. It was very heavy and had tracks, so we figured it would be the best tool for the job.

I manned the skid-steer and put gentle, constant pressure on the cable. He worked on the tree with the saw. As soon as the tree started to give a bit, I went full-power forward with the skid-steer. The next thing I knew, I was travelling backward at an alarming speed (I think the tracks were both just spinning forward while I was doing this). I shot back until I came to the tree the cable was wrapped around at which point I stopped abruptly and the ~3/4" crane cable snapped.

So it is a wild ride indeed! The moral of the story is that you can't manhandle a big tree. It's going to go where it wants to. Even cut into small chunks, we worked the tractor hard all weekend dragging the trunk of that tree up the bank.

 

[IslandTractor]

I always try pushing first. If the V417 slides back, then I break some roots.

You are right about the extra room at the front, I don't worry about the tree top breaking and falling on the cab or the root ball coming up, since the V417 does not move when pushing over a tree.

Here is a side view to show what I mean. I put the grapple against the tree, got out, took the picture, stood outside, reached in pushed the extend switch, took the next picture and repeat.
View attachment 392926 View attachment 392927 View attachment 392932 View attachment 392928

Then got in to pick it up.
View attachment 392929 View attachment 392930

Looks like you were having fun! That tree doesn't have much of a root ball. I appreciate the power of the V417 but I kinda doubt it would work well without a little root cutting on trees with more substantial root system. We have a tree we call "choke cherry" that is very easy to push over (same size roots as the one you show). However our oaks, maples, tulip trees and pines are much more difficult to "cow tip" over and at least for my 40hp CUT, require a bit of root cutting on at least one side first.

 

[brown40]

The biggest tree you plan to cut would dictate the size of your rope, and you are really just looking to preload enough tension in one direction to encourage it; too much tension and things can split prematurely.
Braided nylon has great elasticity, strength to weight & value compared to other "old technology ropes", and it's the strength & elasticity you want. The amazing things about the new ropes is they hardly stretch, so can be used in applications wire rope held... but you want stretch.
Any low cost anchor that can hold the pull is better than tying trees to equipment, especially when the tree is bigger than the equipment.
With a high attachment point, 100-150 feet of 1/2 inch nylon, and a good tensioning knot (midshipmans hitch, prusik knot, etc), you can add a lot of force towards your hinge.
Too big a braid and the handling gets cumbersome, unless you plan on pulling it over, or needing the rating for other plans.

 

[Rat Rod Mac]

Some places it's not going to be feasible to get the tractor in location, so a rope with some stretch and a come-a-long may be the way to go. That way you can put some stretch in the rope and get the heck out of there when it comes down. Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions. It's appreciated. RRM

 

[joemd11]

This was a tall (60-90ft) Tulip tree I had taken down by a local company. I had used this company before and was pleased with their work. The tree was about 15 feet from my house and several large branches hung over the roof. The plan was to use the bucket truck and a nylon rope, run thru a snatch block, to fell the tree in the desired location. After making his initial cuts, the guy on the saw signaled the guy in the truck to tension the rope. Well the truck stalled and the tree swayed precariously back and forth and I got a little concerned it would go the wrong way. The guy in the truck gets it started and is determined not to stall it again. This time he gives it more gas and snaps the rope. Once again the tree is swaying and I'm a nervous wreck. The guys fix the rope and make some more cuts in the tree and it finally falls in the proper direction. I didn't know it at the time, but the result is called a "barber chair" and could have seriously injured the saw operator. Thankfully no one was hurt and nothing was damaged. Be careful out there!

 

[IslandTractor]

View attachment 392941
This was a tall (60-90ft) Tulip tree I had taken down by a local company. I had used this company before and was pleased with their work. The tree was about 15 feet from my house and several large branches hung over the roof. The plan was to use the bucket truck and a nylon rope, run thru a snatch block, to fell the tree in the desired location. After making his initial cuts, the guy on the saw signaled the guy in the truck to tension the rope. Well the truck stalled and the tree swayed precariously back and forth and I got a little concerned it would go the wrong way. The guy in the truck gets it started and is determined not to stall it again. This time he gives it more gas and snaps the rope. Once again the tree is swaying and I'm a nervous wreck. The guys fix the rope and make some more cuts in the tree and it finally falls in the proper direction. I didn't know it at the time, but the result is called a "barber chair" and could have seriously injured the saw operator. Thankfully no one was hurt and nothing was damaged. Be careful out there!

This thread is the first time I have heard the term "barber chair" or seen a photo like that. What exactly is a "barber chair" and why does it happen?