ROPS Engineering

[Poppa]

I have been thinking about this for a while and those tractor roll-over videos made me finally decide to post my question. Mostly because I never thought of my five acres as steeply sloped until I saw the gentle slopes in the video.

First though let me make it very clear that I am a huge proponent of ROPS. In fact, it is the primary reason I keep looking at new tractors and not older used tractors. So please don't interpret this post as me questioning the use of ROPS.

That little disclaimer aside, my question is are the ROPS on tractors designed for the tractor as it leaves the factory or do the manufacturers take into account, FEL's, liquid filled tires, ballast boxes, large implements and anything else that tractor owners do to "improve" the traction of their rig and hence seriously increase the weight of the tractor.

I couldn't help but notice that the tractors in the video were pretty bare bones with the exception of ROPS that appeared bigger and beefier than anything I see on the tractors I have been looking at.

I also understand that all the goodies I previously mentioned with the exception of the FEL would help to lower the CG but when the tractor is going over no one cares where the CG was. They want to know that roll bar is going to retain it's shape.

I am curious about this and I guess want to know whether the first stop for a new tractor shouldn't be the local 4WD shop to install a full roll cage.

Mike

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Based on my personal experience with lawyers, sharks and leeches, I have to assume that the engineering departments at every tractor company designs its ROPS to withstand a rollover with a truck welded to the bottom of the tractor.

I can't prove that, but I believe it.

Also, you don't have to rule out some of the older equipment that did not come from the factory with a ROPS. Many of the manufacturers currently sell ROPS kits that can be added to their old equipment so you can buy a 20 year old tractor and add a ROPS to it.

 

[riptides]

Interesting post.

IMHO, Roll-Over protection is not the same as Roll protection.
So the lawyers can have a frenzy on that. I imagine any strongly welded bar/frame/cage extending out around the operating station would suffice to prevent a roll-over up to a certain degree.

The gentle slope I saw in one video was interrupted by a major volcanic like mound. Now would we drive over that or around it?

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bird]

I agree with Bob. I'm confident (without proof) that the tractor manufacturers build in a substantial safety factor in the ROPS knowing that owners are going to add a number of implements (which they even sell along with the tractors) and that the tires may be filled and/or wheel weights added (all things that are mentioned in their manuals and/or sold by the tractor manufacturer and/or dealers).

In those videos, I would think they added extra "roll bars" to limit damage to the tractors so they could continue to use them for one test after another.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

One point that is NOT considered here is rolling a tractor on FLAT ground. Everyone seems to be worried about slopes. But anyone who have ever used a piece of ground engaging equipment can tell you that it is possible to flip a tractor over in a flat field.

Don't believe me, then go to TSC, buy a subsoiler or middle buster, attach it to any modest size tractor, and drop it in the ground while driving just a little bit too fast or while making an arcing (or worse yet) or sharp turn. You'll be on your side faster than you know what happened. For a larger tractor you'll likely need a larger implement, but the point is the same.

Or how many of us, when using a FEL have had the bucket up and the load shifted? I put my Kubota on 2 wheel one day when large cobblestones shifted to the right side of the bucket. I slammed the bucket down, and prevent a rollover onto the right side of the tractor, but that occured on flat smooth asphalt.

Last week I drove the Kubota into a large roll off dumpster and the front wheels went up high enough to have the entire seat of the tractor stuck like butt floss between my cheeks. I thought I was going over backwards!

My NH TC24D is used with a couple of heavy implements and before I added weights to the front wheels it would pop wheelies in low gear range when transporting a Befco finish mower.

You don't need a slope to tip over a tractor.

 

[Poppa]

<font color="blue"> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Based on my personal experience with lawyers, sharks and leeches, I have to assume that the engineering departments at every tractor company designs its ROPS to withstand a rollover with a truck welded to the bottom of the tractor.

I can't prove that, but I believe it. )</font> </font>

I lean in that direction as well, kind of like a manufacturer telling you not to drink the furniture polish but then telling who you should call if you do it anyway.

<font color="blue"> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( IMHO, Roll-Over protection is not the same as Roll protection )</font> </font>

I've also thought of this. Most ROPS appear to me to be directed at actually stopping roll over so you end up on the side and not upside down.

Mike

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> One point that is NOT considered here is rolling a tractor on FLAT ground. Everyone seems to be worried about slopes. But anyone who have ever used a piece of ground engaging equipment can tell you that it is possible to flip a tractor over in a flat field. </font>

Or better yet, trying to pull a stuck vehicle out of the mud. If you try taking off too fast, you'll be tipping over backwards before you know what hit you. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Lazy]

Hi
You have to know your limits and the limits of the tractor what ever you are using the tractor for. I have used mine to help pull stumps by hooking the tractor (case 460) to the stump raising the front wheels off the ground about 2' kill the engine get off the tractor and start chopping the roots and let the tractor weight pull the stump over, then get back on the tractor and continue pulling it up. but I wouldn't recommend that procedure to anyone.
Maybe the purchase of a a tractor should have the same requiremet as a 4 wheeler a training class by the dealer at the time of purchase. but then what about the purchase of a used tractor.

Charlie

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> I have used mine to help pull stumps by hooking the tractor (case 460) to the stump raising the front wheels off the ground about 2' kill the engine get off the tractor and start chopping the roots and let the tractor weight pull the stump over, then get back on the tractor and continue pulling it up. but I wouldn't recommend that procedure to anyone.
</font>

When I load the 8N (with the brush hog on the back) up the ramps onto my trailer, the front wheels are off the ground. I know it will probably never happen, but when I'm on two wheels, I'm terrified that the tractor is going to flip backwards.
It's a terrible feeling in your stomach when this happens. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[BB_TX]

<font color="red"> It only takes 3/4 of a second for a tractor starting to roll-over backwards to reach the point of no return. Another 3/4 of a second and the tractor is completely over.
</font>
This is from The Ohio State University Extension Newsletter. That is not enough time to react even if you are anticipating it.

 

[fivestring]

<font color="red">"Based on my personal experience with lawyers, sharks and leeches, " </font>

Interesting grouping, Bob.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Hey, I like my lawyer, I just feel sorry for the sharks and leeches having to be lumped in with the lawyers.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( When I load the 8N (with the brush hog on the back) up the ramps onto my trailer, the front wheels are off the ground. I know it will probably never happen, but when I'm on two wheels, I'm terrified that the tractor is going to flip backwards.
It's a terrible feeling in your stomach when this happens )</font>

Congrats on the N.. I'm a fellow N owner as well ( 8n, 2n, NAA ).

I soppose you have a real heavy 5' rotary cutter. I know my 8n will tote my 5' KK and load onmy flatbed ramps without the front end bouncing. I also have a bumpe ron mine.. and imagine it weights a good? 60-75 pounds. I guess if you had a heavy JD, NH, or BH squealer brand cutter.. you might come close to 1.5 or 2x the weight of my KK or a howse rotary cutter. If you don't have a bumper.. run to tractor supply.. they are? 75$ and bolt to the font axle.. And then you can hang suitcase weights off of it ( if you can afford them. ) or even take weight plates from a weight lifting set and bolt them right on to the bumper with a long carriage bolt and some big washers..

I know what you mean about the sinking feeling in your stomach when the tractor is being weird on a slope or a hill.

I once drove my NAA nearly off the front of my flatbed trailer.. and had to do quite a bit of finagling (with help from a couple gentlymen and a jack and timbers ).. and even then.. it was a 'oh-my-gosh' feeling till it was all said and done..

One good thing.. with a mower back there.. as long as you use a rigid toplink ( and not chain ).. you should be fairly safe frome a backflip due to the 3pt connection... still be safe!

Soundguy