rough cut lumber anyone know about it

[BryanM]

I am interested in building a machine shed and was wanting to use rough cut lumber for building. I would be using as purlines and beams not posts! But is that a good idea due too shrinkage. How long do you wait before using green lumber?

Anybody ever build with rough cut lumber? any info would help!

 

[Chilly807]

Nothing wrong with using rough lumber, it's usually stronger than "dimensional" lumber. A 2 x 4 is actually 2 inches by 4 inches, not 1.5 x 3.5.

I'd say you can use it right away, no difference from the other stuff. If you're concerned about shrinkage, let it air dry (well stacked and with stickers between each layer) for a couple months.

If you need a building permit, be sure your local inspectors don't have a problem with rough lumber. Here any lumber used for building has to be stamped, although they won't get too sticky about an accessory building.

Sean

 

[/pine]

I used to do a lot of flooring and roofing systems with rough lumber...for precision work you need to keep a caliper/guage on hand...to maintain uniform depth/dimensions at bearing points...

i.e., some beam members may need to be notched (or shimmed) at the posts to keep the top of the beams flush...rough lumber (non KD) dries and shrinks at different rates due to density etc...

 

[Transit]

A lot depends on how the lumber is cut. It is not shrinkage, it is cupping and twisting you want to control.

There are tons of sites stacked up that you can go to.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf

 

[3BPercherons]

We used rough cut oak for a run-in shed/feed room building. Posts are PT 6x6; girts, joists, rafters and siding are all rough cut oak. We used the wood within a week of coming from the mill since if you let oak dry too long you'll bend more nails than you'll drive

We haven't had any structural problems due to shrinkage, though the siding that was installed tight board to board now has gaps between each board (as expected)

 

[pat32rf]

All finished lumber starts out as rough cut. Last fall I wanted to thin out some of the basswood trees in my sugar bush. Once some of it dried I planed it and panelled the family room. The 2x4s were used rough in the basement. Have some 2x10's left for framing a new woodshed, then 1x8's for siding. I realize basswood isn't the strongest so I don't use it for beams or roof joists....
$350 to the sawyer gave me enough wood for a years worth of projects plus I sold the leftover logs to a local mill for $750...almost as good as free scrap metal

 

[nickel plate]

Saw sized (rough) lumber is more apt to be not of constant controlled widths and thicknesses. Look at the ends of the units and see if there is reasonable uniformity from stick to stick.
If you need any metal hangers, caps and such, most manufacturers produce rough sizes but you will need to special order them as very few retailers will carry them on their shelves.
Nothing wrong with dripping green lumber for framing-just nail it up as fast as you buy it or this time of the year it will start walking out of the pile right in front of your eyes!

 

[radioman]

in a way, green wood is great for building sheds as poles and rafters. Once you put a nail in it, it will put a small surface of rust on the outside part of nail from green wood. Once wood dries, the nails tends to stop rusting and act like a shank nail. It will be impossible to pull out. Ask me how I know! I agree, if using green wood for siding or doors, it will show gaps. Better to use dried wood for siding.

 

[toy]

I know of homes that are built out of rough lumber that are over 60 years old and still look good. They have siding and dressed flooring over the rough sub floor and sheet rock and you would never know that they were framed and sheeted out of rough lumber. I also know of newer homes that have been built out of rough lumber. One thing as has been mentioned you need to stack it flat, off the ground [first layer] and use stickers[boards] between each row of boards that you have stacked to let air circulate around the boards. I have heard some say let it dry for about 6 months and others say let it air dry for about a year. If you let it air dry and it is out side put something on top of it to keep it dry and in any case put weight on it to keep it from cupping and twisting. Also coat the ends of the boards to keep them from drying too quickly and causing checking [cracks] on the ends of the boards. I have seen people go to the saw mill and get a load and come home and build a pretty nice out building out of rough lumber and since it was just an out building it did a fine job for its intended purpose. Some wood is hard to near impossible to drive a nail in it after it has dried, you need to take that into consideration also. There are home remedy type coatings that you can put on them that will make them last for decades, better than a lot of the weather proof stains that you get but they are not probably as environmentally friendly according to some groups, but not my group.

 

[Rob-D]

Built a shed and barn out of rough cut before the local mill closed. Love it! Too bad great prices and strong. Like someone said watch the bowing, cuping and twisting. I've used it green with no problems.

Guess I built the shed about 10 years ago and the barn about 5 or 6. both still look good and both are still straight. Everyone used to build with it and we have some 100 year old barns that still look good.

Rob

 

[shinnlinger]

I have a sawmill and I have built alot of things with green lumber. from sheds to barns to houses

First off, many building inspectors say they only like inspected lumber, but they may not know the actual requirements for your area. I would first look up your local law and you can frequently find that a common sense inspection of the lumber is sufficient. ie, you do not put a huge knot in the middle of a beam or purlin, but you can probably get away with it in a post. I doubt this will be an issue for a machinery shed, but I wanted to post this so others may not give up the idea of using a local sawyer to mill up some trees you have on your property.

As for the lumber itself, alot has to do with species and how it was milled. White pine is very stable and if stickered as toy suggests, will serve you well, but it is also important that the sawyer "box the heart" on beams. That means you ideally want to see the center of the growth rings when you look at the end of the beam in the center of beam. by rolling the log as you mill you equalize the pressure and the timbers tend to stay pretty straight. IF I put a 26" diameter pine on my mill and start whacking off 2x's without rolling the log, I can pretty much guarantee you most of those 2x4's will be warped to uselessness. Many will curl up right on the mill. This is less of an issue with boards as they are narrower and have less stress. Trees that grew on hillsides can also be problematic

ON the subject of 2x's, they are a standard cut for big production mills. They have saws that will literally mill an entire tree into 2x all at once. Your local mill cannot compete with that so you may be sticker shocked if you get a quote on 2x4's. ON the other hand, boards and beams you cannot get at Home Cheapo, and that is where local mills can give you something unique at a good price. Even though I have a mill, I frequently buy my 2x4's and 6's from a building supply center.

As a rule, when I cut a timber frame, I cut it green. It is much easier and I want to get the timbers locked in place before they can warp. I will cut my tennons a little short or drill my mortices a little deeper so that when the timber does shrink it won't be much of an issue. If I were to pile a bunch of timber under tin for a few years, inevitably, some would warp and I would have to cut those timbers and wait a few more years or build or find a kiln.

Wood shrinks in width not length and as already been mentioned, it will shrink around a nail. Metal fasteners for rough cut are expensive, but I have welded my own custom brackets or even just drill holes in some steel plate to join timbers if you want a cheap and easy way. Your local machine shop will do this for you. I have a neighbor though who simple cuts the ends of beams to fit standard steel fastners. If you are having your lumber milled, you can ask the sawyer to cut to whatever you want. He or she would be happy to make you 3-9/16s by 3 and 9/16s and that will probably end up just right for a 4x4 fastener with EWP.

As for siding, I prefer board and batten. It is designed for green wood. You nail only one side of the board and then go back only nailing the center of the batten, so the wood can move the way it wants without splitting. I use ring shank nails. I have a big planer mill near me that sells seconds of KD shiplap for only .33 a board ft, which is only a whistle more than what I would charge you to cut YOUR trees, so look around.

 

[rimshot]

I have built houses and garages out of rough Pine & Balsam for years. I always took time to run the 2 x 4's to size up the 4" dimension. I didn't care about the thickness of the 2" unless they were used for plates. Same thing for flooor joists.

I once built a house using 2 X 4 rough cut and air dried lumber after it had been stuck (stacked with air spaces fro wood strips). This stuff had been outside air dried for 6 months. It was as dry as it was going to get short of kiln drying.

So once framed up, I plumbed, wired, insulated and drywalled entire house including painting and carpeting. As soon as I got the place done I rented the house to a friend who heated with wood stove over the winter.

Well, I thought that framing lumber was dry but that wood stove actually kiln dried those studs and what do you think happened as a result? Wood manages to shrink a slight bit as it drys and when it does it pops nails and even screws. Every nail had to be reset in my nicely finished drywall.

I chuckle telling that story now days but it wasn't funny 35 years ago when I completed that place.

rimshot

 

[20 20]

I have a small mill and have built many things from pool decks to my house. The others have given sound advice and I also agree that rough cut is just as good, if not better then store bought "stuff". In fact I have a fit when I go to the box stores and have to buy a piece of wood. I usually end up unloading the whole stack of boards to find 1 or 2 pieces of decent lumber. As far as graded lumber goes you'll have to check with your local codes. IMO most mill folks have knowledge of what is good or bad. I've seen #2 graded lumber at the box stores that isn't worth a _____.

Framing with green lumber is not an issue, as someone mentioned nails that have been pounded in while lumber was green are a bear to be brought back out after dried.

 

[smiley]

As for siding, I prefer board and batten. It is designed for green wood. You nail only one side of the board and then go back only nailing the center of the batten, so the wood can move the way it wants without splitting. [/QUOTE

I agree with shinnliger for the most part except when we built my house 35 yrs ago, we nailed both sides of the boards, angling toward the center, but nailed only one side of the battens, then went back the following year and nailed the other side. Most of the lumber came right off the mill that was set up about 100 ft away. We used blowdown pine trees they gave us from the waterworks next door, but we had to skid with a horse. The greenest one we used was the 32 ft main carrier that wasn't quite a blowdown yet. You know it takes quite a while to quietly fell and limb a 50 -60 ft tree with a bowsaw, after dark. The horse couldn't quite handle that one, but 400 ft of cable and a tractor did. It was peeled and in set in place within 1/2 hour after it hit the ground.


We also used a lot of our own poplar for framing, barn siding and even built a stockade style log cabin with it. It's great wood as long as water can't stand on it or it will rot quickly. An old time builder neighbor said it was the prefered wood for dance hall floor joists, as it is very springy when dry.

Not a great photo but no problems after 35 yrs.

Smiley

 

[shinnlinger]

SMiley,

Have you ever stained your boards? I don't know if I will mine.

If I was nailing with common nails. I might nail both sides angled, but the ringshanks from my nail gun hold very well. I cannot pull the battens off. I also usually do 1x10 boards also, but narrower boards might be ok to nail both sides, but I wouldn't recommend it if you can ring-shank or screw the boards.

 

[johnlaw484]

We are talking machine shed here, not the Waldorf Astoria. I have built several out buildings from rough cut oak.
We're talking major savings.

 

[rvaitor]

I hate to be dumb, what are you guys talking about when you say nail 'both sides'?

 

[Egon]

I think it means that when looking at the board face on a nail is placed near each outside edge of the board.

 

[shinnlinger]

ANd to be clear, I recommend nailing only one side of the board so that as the green wood shrinks it won't pull itself apart and split. I use ring shank nails and the batten nailed in the middle passing between the boards.

 

[smiley]

SMiley,

Have you ever stained your boards? I don't know if I will mine.

If I was nailing with common nails. I might nail both sides angled, but the ringshanks from my nail gun hold very well. I cannot pull the battens off. I also usually do 1x10 boards also, but narrower boards might be ok to nail both sides, but I wouldn't recommend it if you can ring-shank or screw the boards.

Yes we used common nails and stained it back when creosote was used. It's lasted well all these years. We loved it as it weathers in various shades from dark brown to gold. Unfortunately some of the areas that catch the most weathering need it now and I don't know what to use. It absolutely will be some kind of penetrating stain not that so called solid stain, that peels off in short order. If anyone has found a good penetrating stain, let me know.
Smiley