Sabre Samurai Cutter attachment

[CntryDR]

Here is my version of the Sabre Samurai cutter.
I researched this attachment on this and other sites,saw what others had done and came up with this set up to work for my trail clearing needs.
I made a quick attach frame for my FEL, modified the supplied mounting bracket and added a hydraulic ram that can extend the cutter assembly out 30" from frame.
I tapped into my power beyond hydraulics that power my backhoe and used a flow controller to provide the proper Gpm. This way I can also run my bush cutter at PTO speed and lift the rockshaft arms as needed.
I have to tidy up some hoses yet to make a nice clean install but everything is working great.

It makes trail work or cleaning up the edges of woods roads a much easier and quicker thing to do!

 

[Mysfyt]

Very nice work! Well thought out. How far will the cutter angle down? As in cutting along a ditch by a driveway?

 

[blackdog2086]

Really nice work. Looks like it could've been made by one of the major manufacturers. I could use one to keep the sides of my driveway cleared. Too sloped for brush hog use.

 

[CntryDR]

Thanks.
I didn't like the supplied bolt that allowed you to put in any position from vertical to horizontal as it would loosen as you were using it, found this out as I was mocking it up.

I made so it could be pinned in the vertical, at 45 degrees up, horizontal, and 22.5 degrees down to cut in the ditch. It would have been nice to mount another cylinder to make it tilt hydraulically but I didn't have another scv to use - I suppose I could have made a manifold where I mounted the quick connects for the motor and added another valve back in the operators' station - maybe this winter's project once I get our trails trimmed!

I will post some pictures again in the different positions and with it extended once I tidy up the hoses on the flow controller.

 

[tsrohrb]

Could you give me more detail on how you plumbed the samurai.

 

[CntryDR]

Does your tractor already have the "power beyond" hydraulic kit from John Deere? This puts the full hydraulic power of the 3720 to the rear of the tractor.

I had this previously installed as I have a 485 backhoe as well - this was the starting point where I plumbed in a flow controller to power the samurai's hydraulic motor.
I can give you detail and pictures from this point. I am not certain how you would get access to the flow ( valve and gpm wise ) you need from another setup.

 

[CntryDR]

I should also note that I already had a scv and hydraulics going to the loader to power a grapple bucket - This is what I use to extend / retract the ram that moves the cutter head out and in.

 

[tsrohrb]

Thanks for the reply. I have a hydraulic line(power beyond) that goes to the rear of my tractor for a backhoe. I have a Kubota and the when this line is not being used for the backhoe, it plugs back into itself. I think our situations are different for Kubota versus JD. I purchased the same flow control valve that you have in the pic, but now I think I need to add a 3rd function valve to the power beyond on the loader and then add the flow control valve if needed. I tried plugging the power beyond line going into my loader into the IN of the flow control valve, then the CF out of the valve to the Samurai. Then the EF of the valve was Teed to the line coming out of the motor. I returned this line to the PB on the loader(where the original line came out). I added QD at the Samurai. I thought that when the Samurai was removed and the flow valve was fully closed, all of the flow would go through the EF of the valve and then back into the PB of the loader. It didn't work! It does work if I attach the Samurai and open the flow valve. The valve starts to lock up and the motors starts to bog down if I try to close the valve.

 

[Coyote machine]

Nice work! Could you give closer details, more pics?, of the attachment location and how you have the ram connected. Maybe a flow diagram, etc.?

FWIW, I too have done a QA plate and mounted the Samurai to it, BUT it's in version 1.0 currently. The problem I'm having is getting the cutters close enough to the ground without the QA plate hitting the ground first. I'm going to have my welder redo the location to work better- hopefully.

Also, I'm wondering what you're using to control the cutter, on/off action and speed of cutting? Are you using a 'joystick' on a FEL lever by chance? That's what I've been using. I feed my Samurai via a pair of QDs located on the cross tube between my FEL arms. It is also used to open/close my grapple, powered by my second set of remotes and a splitter valve at the rear of the tractor with hoses run to the FEL from the valve. My joystick trigger switch controls on/off of the cutters when I pull the FEL lever toward me. Engine RPMs control speed of the cutters, which I keep at near idle to protect the cutters from potential damage if I run into something too hard to cut, etc.

Thanks,
Hope my description helps.

 

[BukitCase]

tsrohrb, those flow control valves have a nasty habit of NEVER being quite closed, then they build up pressure which shuts the flow off completely - when I plumbed mine, I ended up having to put a small high pressure ball valve between the CF port and tank, otherwise my QD's act as the "NOT" circuit and the system goes into relief. When I'm actually USING the Samurai that extra "Bypass" valve stays closed, when NOT using it the flow control stays all the way to EF position and the bypass valve stays open. There's not MUCH flow there, but if I CLOSE that bypass without anything hooked to the QD's on the FEL, after a while I get that squeal from the relief valve.

I"ve still got some things to change on my setup, which is why it's all done with hoses and a bucketful of adapters (I call it a feasibility study) - and it's already taught me I'll need a DIRECTIONAL control in the circuit somewhere, 'cause if the Samurai bites down on a limb that's hard wood and near the max size, it LOCKS UP without a way to reverse the flow. Major PITA I still need to address... Steve

 

[Coyote machine]

I could be way off base here, but in my conversations with the owner of the Samurai Sickle Bar, it was my understanding that a flow control is NOT necessary in most instances of small SCUTs.
I was told to mount it and try it, and if there seemed to be issues, THEN go the route of flow control. It is also my understanding that I don't have any flow control device added onto the circuits of my tractor's hydraulics; and I control the cutter's oscillation speed merely by RPMs of my engine via its throttle.
I'm NO hydraulics expert by any means, so I caution those reading this post to duly note my warning of this newbie level of knowledge. Having said the above, I have not had any issue with flow control, squealing valves, going into relief, etc. This must be worth something, since I have had hours of use from my Samurai cutter with virtually no problems except for finding a suitable height for mounting it on my QA plate/FEL. As stated in my earlier post in this thread, I plan to correct that when I return home in end of April.
Hope this helps.

 

[BukitCase]

Coyote, I wouldn't doubt that a small tractor wouldn't be likely to overpower the Samurai - I probably should have mentioned which of my 3 machines I'm dealing with -

TractorData.com J.I. Case 58B Construction King industrial tractor information

Right side of the page, look at hydraulic specs - my main hydraulic circuits are 1" lines, rest are 3/4". In order NOT to impact other hydraulic functions (by using smaller fittings INLINE), I needed to use the 3/4" version of the flow control, feed it from the main pump, use the EF port to FEL input (full size) and CF port to Samurai (reduced size), and (since the original relief valve is part of the FEL valve block) I had to add a relief AHEAD of all this to keep from grenading the pump (by dead-heading it)

Neither of my other two tractors have FEL's or I might have gone a different route - but eventually I hope to fab a mount to put the Samurai on the hoe end (16 foot reach) so I can reach a couple of hedges that sit on edges of 6 foot banks, etc... Steve

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote, I wouldn't doubt that a small tractor wouldn't be likely to overpower the Samurai - I probably should have mentioned which of my 3 machines I'm dealing with -

TractorData.com J.I. Case 58B Construction King industrial tractor information

Right side of the page, look at hydraulic specs - my main hydraulic circuits are 1" lines, rest are 3/4". In order NOT to impact other hydraulic functions (by using smaller fittings INLINE), I needed to use the 3/4" version of the flow control, feed it from the main pump, use the EF port to FEL input (full size) and CF port to Samurai (reduced size), and (since the original relief valve is part of the FEL valve block) I had to add a relief AHEAD of all this to keep from grenading the pump (by dead-heading it)

Neither of my other two tractors have FEL's or I might have gone a different route - but eventually I hope to fab a mount to put the Samurai on the hoe end (16 foot reach) so I can reach a couple of hedges that sit on edges of 6 foot banks, etc... Steve

So you want to use your hoe's dipper to reach out with the Samurai and swath hedges from 16' reach?! Does your seat for your tractor/hoe face the hedges or are you going to cut via mirror from the tractor's station?!:shocked:

P.S. I took a look at the link you provided~ Now that's a beast! I can see why you'd need to control flow. Looks like mirrors to cut those hedges though unless you attach a sulky to the hoe area to increase visibility...

 

[BukitCase]

Actually, the stock seat on those pivoted and rose up (heavy internal spring) to run the hoe, so you were facing rear - mine was gettin' kinda tired and cranky, so when I replaced the seat I used a folding BOAT seat for tractor side, then built a different frame with small square tube that HINGES slightly behind and above the tractor seat - now, instead of pulling an uncooperative pin, spinning and raising the seat and tryin' to find the OTHER pin hole, I just stand up, flip down the tractor seat, flip the hoe seat forward, sit on THAT and wiggle levers -

When this project reaches "phase 3" (1 and 2 just left me wanting MORE ) I'll probably move the flow/direction valve more centered between the 2 operating positions and combine with extra controls for a thumb for the hoe - already have 2 dual solenoid diverters for FEL, a QA project for the FEL to finish, a 900# grapple sitting on a pallet waiting for the above, a single ripper/root saw and thumb to fab for hoe, etc -

Right now, nearly everything I've added (except hoses for Samurai to FEL) is just cobbled together to see how I like it - once I settle on a TOTAL plan, I'll get out the benders/tig welder and hard pipe most of it.

I'll be 72 in May, so my ultimate goal is to stay on our 10 acre place as long as possible - being able to sit on my a** and wiggle levers while keeping things trimmed up and neat will hopefully extend that time by a decade or more :thumbsup: ...Steve

 

[tsrohrb]

BukitCase---Your description helps. When I get a free evening, I'm going to research a 3rd function valve setup.

 

[Coyote machine]

Your description helps. When I get a free evening, I'm going to research a 3rd function valve setup.

Which description are you referring to?

 

[tsrohrb]

Which description are you referring to?

Sorry, BukitCase. His flow control valve also built up pressure like I was experiencing.

 

[Coyote machine]

OP - any updates on progress?

THanks,

CM

 

[CntryDR]

Nice work! Could you give closer details, more pics?, of the attachment location and how you have the ram connected. Maybe a flow diagram, etc.?

FWIW, I too have done a QA plate and mounted the Samurai to it, BUT it's in version 1.0 currently. The problem I'm having is getting the cutters close enough to the ground without the QA plate hitting the ground first. I'm going to have my welder redo the location to work better- hopefully.

Also, I'm wondering what you're using to control the cutter, on/off action and speed of cutting? Are you using a 'joystick' on a FEL lever by chance? That's what I've been using. I feed my Samurai via a pair of QDs located on the cross tube between my FEL arms. It is also used to open/close my grapple, powered by my second set of remotes and a splitter valve at the rear of the tractor with hoses run to the FEL from the valve. My joystick trigger switch controls on/off of the cutters when I pull the FEL lever toward me. Engine RPMs control speed of the cutters, which I keep at near idle to protect the cutters from potential damage if I run into something too hard to cut, etc.

Thanks,
Hope my description helps.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Here are some pictures that show the hydraulic set up from the rear view of the 3720 when the Samurai is connected and in its usual state with no hydraulic implement attached - just the circuit that powers the rockshaft arms to lift the 3pt. hitch.
The first picture is the circuit connected to run the rockshaft arms alone as per the power beyond kit. The next pictures show how to power the Samurai and keep the power to the rockshaft arms.

Also there is a flow diagram that the service manager at my JD dealer drew for me to follow when plumbing it up so that it allows the tractor at full PTO speed, setting the flow controller to the 4gpm the Samurai requires and still run the rear PTO and lift the bush cutter on the 3pt. hitch.

I do a lot of trail work with our local atv/ snowmobile club and this setup is excellent for that type of work.
You can set the cutter at the height with the FEL to get all those annoying branches that swat you in the face on your first pass, they drop and you grind them up with the cutter behind you, then your next pass it's easier to move over a bit - has made it very simple to effectively widen our trails. Anything over hanging up to about 13ft I can reach up and cut. Much easier on 50+ year old shoulders than hours with a pole saw!
The cutter is stored for the winter up here in Canada - I will post some detailed pics of the ram set up when I next have it out.

 

[Bcajun]

Thanks for the reply. I have a hydraulic line(power beyond) that goes to the rear of my tractor for a backhoe. I have a Kubota and the when this line is not being used for the backhoe, it plugs back into itself. I think our situations are different for Kubota versus JD. I purchased the same flow control valve that you have in the pic, but now I think I need to add a 3rd function valve to the power beyond on the loader and then add the flow control valve if needed. I tried plugging the power beyond line going into my loader into the IN of the flow control valve, then the CF out of the valve to the Samurai. Then the EF of the valve was Teed to the line coming out of the motor. I returned this line to the PB on the loader(where the original line came out). I added QD at the Samurai. I thought that when the Samurai was removed and the flow valve was fully closed, all of the flow would go through the EF of the valve and then back into the PB of the loader. It didn't work! It does work if I attach the Samurai and open the flow valve. The valve starts to lock up and the motors starts to bog down if I try to close the valve.

@ Tsrohrb Sorry for the late post as I am new to this forum; did you ever figure out your problem with your above stated plumbing configuration? I am thinking about purchasing the Samurai cutter to install on my JD 1025r, and was planning on plumbing it exactly how you did, by teeing of the EF and motor return to the return port on the power beyond. It is interesting to hear that you experienced problems with this setup and am curious if you figured anything further out. Thanks!