Saw a new ad for Mobile oil on the tube today...

Charlie_in_TX · Feb 21, 2005

gs, you seem to be the expert here. Are you a petro engineer or similar? Are you repeating what you have experienced?

As far as quallity of one oil vrs another, it is all bull shirt. Some anicdotal evedence.

My dad had a '73 suburban. He changed the oil in it 1 time in the 140,000 miles he owned it(3 of his brothers had similar results). The motor was running like new when he totaled it. His secreat? Bypass filter changed every 1000 miles. He used the cheapes oil (Ring Seal brand, cost like 69c in the 80s) and an Amaco bypass filter with tolet paper as the media.

I have a good buddy who is an electrician. They run power strokes diesels in their company trucks. One of the employes told the boss 'it is time to change the oil'. The boss said don't worry about it. 50,000 miles later the oil was no longer good enough to run the injector pump. Changed the oil then with no perminant damage. The truck was traded in at 350,000 mile with 7 oil changes. The motor still ran like new.

I can provide many more examples but none were there was an engine failure.

So whats my point? Motors very seldom fail because of oil failure. Motors will fail because of lack of oil but not oil failure. I have asked the question of others, how many engines have you seen, with oil in them, fail because of too much friction? The answer is usually none and never high enough to justify doing more than the manufacture recommends.

gsxr1100 · Feb 21, 2005

( gs, you seem to be the expert here. Are you a petro engineer or similar? Are you repeating what you have experienced? )

I am just expressing what I have learned on other websites, myself through empirical data, some ASME spec's and talking with people at work.

No, I am only a Mech Engineer that has working on NASA items and now designs commercial and military engines and flight controls.

( As far as quallity of one oil vrs another, it is all bull shirt. Some anicdotal evedence. )

There is a difference just look at the data from within its groups or class. A group 1 will not even “hold a stick to a group 4 or 5”

(
So whats my point? Motors very seldom fail because of oil failure. Motors will fail because of lack of oil but not oil failure. I have asked the question of others, how many engines have you seen, with oil in them, fail because of too much friction? The answer is usually none and never high enough to justify doing more than the manufacture recommends. )

Ha I agree but tell the other 95% on this board that your engine will fail and you are out of luck since you did extended drains. Friction is not a problem it parts that fail, that cause other items to fail.

AutoUnionTypeC · Feb 21, 2005

( Let’s compare prices on 20K miles.

Conventional change: (actually this is 21K miles with oil/filter changes at 3K)
Oil filter $10* 7 = $70
Oil $1.2*14*7=$117.6
Total cost $187.6

Amsoil extended drain (oil filter changes at 10K)
Oil filter $10*2=$20
Bypass oil filter $10*2=$20
Oil $5.5*15=82.5
Top off oil $5.5*4=$22
Total cost $144.5)

Sounds good, here are my costs for 23.5k.
3 Mann W719/30 @ $10.00..........30.00
3 gal Mobil1 10W-30 @ $19.00.....57.00
Total.........................................87.00

Obviously I have a great advantage only needing four quarts of oil per change. Were I to fully take advantage of my filter, which I submit is truly the limiting factor on extended changes, my costs would be.....per 18,000k

1 Mann W719/30 @ $10.00...................10.00
1 gal Mobil 10W-30 @19.00.................. 19.00
1 Top off Quart @ 4.50...........................4.50
Total.................................................$33.50 /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That I chose to change my oil sooner rather than later does not reflect a lack of confidence in my engine or my oil. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Regards, J

cowboydoc · Feb 21, 2005

So whats my point? Motors very seldom fail because of oil failure. Motors will fail because of lack of oil but not oil failure. I have asked the question of others, how many engines have you seen, with oil in them, fail because of too much friction? The answer is usually none and never high enough to justify doing more than the manufacture recommends.


Couldn't agree more Charlie. In my opinion it's like putting supreme unleaded in your car. Yeah it's got all the specs and such but it doesn't do one thing to help your car run any better than good old regular unleaded. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif You can make all the claims you want but does it really make your engine last longer? We've got diesels with 600k on them and still would probably go another couple hundred thousand but the bodies on them are shot. What would synthetic have gained here? Not one dang thing. The new diesels now go 7500 or more on a regular oil change. I'm not sure but I think Dodge is even up to 10k between oil changes on regular oil.

milkman · Feb 22, 2005

( It’s been my understanding that for some time it’s been the filter elements and not the oil that has limited change intervals when running synthetic. )
I've seen similar statements before and it has me wondering, just what is it that gets inside the engine and plugs up the oil filter? There's clean oil going in when changed, no outside dirt can get into the system, so where does it come from? Does the engine wear fast enough that the metal particles plug up the filter, seems that an engine wouldn't last long with that amount of metal being worn away. Anyone have an answer? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

cowboydoc · Feb 22, 2005

Some of the contaminants are from wear but your daily contaminants are from burning fuel and exhaust. Also get contaminants from cooling system, air intake system. Many, many areas for contaminants to make it into your engine.

40Kchicks · Feb 22, 2005

Actually the truck starts easier and runs a little quieter. These are a couple things that I noticed right away. I’m not a scientist, just an electrical/mechanical technician and livestock farmer but these are things that I noticed.

Eric

gsxr1100 · Feb 22, 2005

If your soot level is high I would look at something more then oil. Also if you have high soot you will have other high values and other low number (on oil test) since your add pack need to kick in; hence, lower TBN, HIGH NOX etc.

If you have coolant getting into your oil, you have big problems. If you have dirt (si) in your oil, get a better air filter.

Most of the issues listed will or should not happen if you drive normal and pay attention to normal upkeep habits; or installing things like idle controls changing air filter more often if you live in sand city etc.

Since I have been doing oil analysis most times any “stuff” that gets in your oil is because of human error.

Example; fuel is injector or pump issues or so on; si in oil means a air filter or seals are bad or air components need better sealing; coolant could be bad liners on pistons etc. You can track down most of the times the problem areas and correct to get better or less wear.

The filters in the past were not great on capacity but very good on efficiency. It is a trade off and you need look at what you want. You can't have a filter go down to 1 micron at a 99% efficiency, not gonna happen.

Amsoil had to redo there filters about 10 years ago to stay ahead of the game. They added material (glass media & cellulose) I think.

If you switch from a dino to a good synthetic it will plug up the filter quicker since it is cleaning out the junk. Plus I do not know if the filters back then had the anti-drain valve in them.

Scrounger · Feb 22, 2005

If you take the synthetic out of the loop even with dino oils the european market has been showing 10K and 15K intervals for the last 15 years. Especially with motorcycles, they are twice what the US is showing.

I go 5000 on my bike and truck with Dino oil with no problems at all.

gsxr1100 · Feb 22, 2005

I agree but some of our dino oil do not compare to some Euro oil spec's.

I have gone 5,000 miles with dino too in my old cars and bikes. But my new(er) cars, Bx22 and my gsxr get synthetic and one year drains. For the use my Bx gets and my GSXR puts up with, a synthetic is not much more $$$$.

I have not done a 5K drain in about 10-years on any auto I own.

Also most part American's have these short drains engraved into there brain. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif