Scope problem

[EddieWalker]

I'm wondering if the scope is moving on you. Have you looked down the barrel and the scope to see it it's lined up? then shoot and see where it hits, then look down the barrel again after every shot? Obviously something is out of whack, and it sure sounds like you've done everything right. Two scopes seem unlikely, but not impossible.

Eddie

 

[sshaw]

I will also mention this: even with a thin duplex reticle the 1 inch bull's eye is almost completelt covered by the reticle on my 4x scopes at 100 yards.....but this has not been an issue with my other two rifles with 4x scopes.

A 4X scope is tough for sighting in especially with the target you are using. Get yourself a good rifle "sight in" target with bold horizontal and vertical lines through the bullseye. You can easily align the scope crosshairs with these lines on the target and get a much more repeatable aimpoint. Like this:

 

[dusty3030]

Some if not most 308 model 7's just suck. I've been fooling with one for 15 years same as op's.

 

[N80]

Eddie, I have not boresighted after every shot, but as mentioned, this went from original Leopold, then to the Zeiss, then to the Leopold and then back to the Zeiss. And I'm doing everything I know to make sure everything is snug. I've got gunsmith screwdrivers and superb hex wrenches. Admittedly I don't know where just right and too tight is. I was reading Jim Carmichael's Book of the Rifle and he talks about snugging everything down with all your might. I remember my Dad breaking screws and hex bolts off. I haven't gone that far, but I've snugged 'em pretty good....all three times.

sshaw, I don't think the target has anything to do with how erratic this gun is shooting BUT, I think you are exactly right about using that type of target with a 4x scope and I am going to take your advice from now on. At 100 yards with my Zeiss 4x scopes the reticle (duplex) pretty much covers the white 1" square.

dusty, I think that is what I've got. See following post.

 

[N80]

Here is some follow-up. Below is the target from about two weeks ago. Shots 6 and 7 were made yesterday.

Summary:

Gun completely pulled apart (stock, rings, bases), cleaned, bore cleaner, etc etc. Put in new stock, bases and rings snugged down with loctite. Adequate cooling time between all of the shots shown.

*First two shots 8-9" high and centered. (not shown)
*Scope adjusted.
*Shot 3, perfect.
*Shots 4 and 5 and I quit in frustration.
*About 10 days go by and I shoot at same target.
*Shot 6 is close enough to make me happy at 100 yards.
*Only cools down about 2-4 minutes but barrel cool to touch
*Shot 7 and I quit. Probably for good.

Could it be a hot barrel thing? I guess, and even with cool down times this seems the most likely answer. Something loose seems less likely since shots 3 and 5 which were with a stone cold barrel hit pretty close and the same pattern occurred with different stocks and scopes.

So at best, this gun is a one shot wonder and probably adequate for 100' or less deer hunting.

End point: gun goes in the closet for the foreseeable future.

Three final thoughts though. First, this is starting to get fun.....at least with my other guns. I don't see myself getting into long range shooting, but I've been surpised at how much I've enjoyed messing with these guns and getting them shooting well. Second, I have a really nice Husqvarna .308 that is really accurate (in my 100' world). So I may buy some different brands of ammo and see just how accurate I can get it....and since I'll have the ammo, I might run a few through the Model 7 and see if it makes a difference....as has been suggested by many of you. Lastly, I have found three boxes of reduced load .308 that a friend of my Dad's hand loaded for my son to hunt with when he was very small. This guy is an excellent hand loader. If I remember it was loaded to perform about like a 30-30. So I may see what I can do with those too.

 

[RobertBrown]

Check the crown and see if it's damaged.
Find out what the rate of twist is and post it with the barrel length.
Next time you punch some paper and post, include information regarding bullet weight and type.
Current model Seven rifles chambered in .308, are manufactured with a twist rate of 1 in 10. If this is the case in your rifle, the gun will stabilize heavier/longer bullets better than lighter/shorter ones.
Examine the spent cases from the suspect rifle closely for imperfections around the neck.
Is the bolt ever difficult to close when loading the chamber?
Do you have any idea how many rounds have been through this gun?
Is the bore perfect when examined with a bore light....carefully?
Do you know if the barrel was ever removed from the receiver?
You said you had the original wood stock but you didn't say or I missed if you put it back on the gun. as the other robert stated, it could be the new stock giving you problems.

 

[N80]

Check the crown and see if it's damaged.

I don't know what the crown is.

Find out what the rate of twist is and post it with the barrel length.

Will check on barrel length. Do you measure from the end of the receiver? It is very short. Shorter than my newer Model 7 in 7mm-08. Does not appear to have been cut. The 7mm-08 barrel looks a little beefier too. Not sure how to find out rate of twist.

Next time you punch some paper and post, include information regarding bullet weight and type.

I thought I had posted that but it is a very long thread now and I may not have. Remington Core-Lokt 150g. (I know, I know, everyone will blame it on the cheap ammo but I shoot this stuff in several guns and get perfectly acceptable 100' groups in other guns including the 7mm-08. Never has a problem dropping a deer with it.)

Current model Seven rifles chambered in .308, are manufactured with a twist rate of 1 in 10. If this is the case in your rifle, the gun will stabilize heavier/longer bullets better than lighter/shorter ones.

Good to know. Maybe when i'm experimenting with the Husqvarna I try some longer bullets. Really don't want to get in to hand loading and all that voodoo.....but I'm starting to get the itch just a tiny little bit.

Examine the spent cases from the suspect rifle closely for imperfections around the neck.

Don't see any problems there.

Is the bolt ever difficult to close when loading the chamber?

No, its about as smooth as a Remington action can get. No feeding, extraction or ejection problems.

Do you have any idea how many rounds have been through this gun?

No, purchased used by my Dad many years ago. Probably more dents and dings than you'd expect but bottom plate and trigger guard on these guns is cheap painted aluminum (or pot metal) and are pretty worn looking.

Is the bore perfect when examined with a bore light....carefully?

Yes,after I ran bore cleaner, patches, brush and patches again I looked it over real well. To my untrained eye it looked fine. Lands and grooves look nice and sharp.

Do you know if the barrel was ever removed from the receiver?

No way of knowing since it was used. No obvious signs of it other than a scraped area out towards the muzzle but that looks more like wear and tear....not a duffus with a monkey wrench.

You said you had the original wood stock but you didn't say or I missed if you put it back on the gun. as the other robert stated, it could be the new stock giving you problems.

Problems discovered when it was in the fiberglass stock, which was made by Remington. I put it back in the wood stock which I think, but can't confirm is the original but the grouping pattern did not change appreciably with changing the stock. The wood stock is not glass bedded but seems to free float beyond the action.

Thanks for thinking this through. It could be that different ammo will change things and since I'm kind of getting into this I may get some different stuff for the Husqvarna and run it through the 7. I hate shooting in the summer heat so now is probably the time to do more anyway.

 

[N80]

Barrel is about 17 3/4".

 

[RobertN]

Double check that the barrel is free-floated. Can you slide a dollar bill under the barrel, from the end of the stock to the reciever? It should have a pressure point about an inch from the end of the fore stock.

I have been web cruising for info about glass bedding, free floating, and pillar bedding. Various site I have seen, seem to point towards thin sport barrels benefitting from a pressure point. Otherwise, the light barrel whips too much, causing a wide spread in grouping.

found this interesting "barrels with alot of stress in them will start to "walk" as they heat up and thats from the barrel structure moving on the mollecular level , with guns whos barrels do walk alot after the third shot or so you will find that a stiff pressure point will help and since most factroy guns have forged barrels and they arn't stress relieved this is why i think that the factroy gun benifit more from a pressure bedding point
"
Remington model 7 ? - LongRangeHunting Online Magazine

Remington Model Seven (7) Problems - Free Float or Not? - LongRangeHunting Online Magazine

Remington Model 7 Barrel Floating Question - 24hourcampfire


"Do NOT free float the barrel as the barrel utilizes a pressure point just aft of the forearm tip, floating the barrel on the Model 7's usually results in worsening accuracy!
The action screws MUST be torqued to the recommended specifications as the action, barrel and pressure point are sensitive to the amount of torque applied to them."
Remington Model 7 - THR

Problems discovered when it was in the fiberglass stock, which was made by Remington. I put it back in the wood stock which I think, but can't confirm is the original but the grouping pattern did not change appreciably with changing the stock. The wood stock is not glass bedded but seems to free float beyond the action.

 

[N80]

I was just now reading about the pressure points designed in the fore ends of Model 7 stocks. I noticed these on the synthetic stock when I took it off but I did not look at the wood stock but from what I was reading all Model 7 stocks have some sort of contact point out toward the end of the stock.

I'll check to see if there is clearance with the wood stock but I'm not ready to pull it out of the stock again since I might shoot some other ammo through it soon. Plus, this particular Remington synthetic stock is butt ugly and the wooden stock is unusually attractive for such a low end rifle....and yes, I still like a pretty rifle even though most of mine are in synthetic stocks. The newer synthetic stock on the 7mm-08 is nice looking.

As far as torque specs, what kind of tool do you use for that? I'm not even sure where you'd find the spec.

Carmichael recommends tightening the front screw all the way down and then the rear screw. I did them incrementally back and forth.