Sea Foam in hydraulic sys

[J_J]

Has anyone used this product successfully. Do you know if it removed any water. Would you say it would remove a pint of water that had not been emulsified or had been emulsified.

As you know, non-detergent fluid will let the water settle to the bottom, but detergent fluid will mix the water and combine things , perhaps generate another compound.

You also know that heat and time might work, but how much heat and time?

This is what the company says. It says to drain water in system. I thought the purpose of Sea Foam was to somehow bind the water to the product and somehow vent the resulting vapor through a vented hyd system.


Controlling Moisture in Hydraulic Fluid
To control moisture buildup in hydraulic fluid, add 1 pint Trans Tuneｮ to every four gallons of fluid at full operating temperature. After at least 30 minutes of operation, check the hydraulic fluid for color and clarity. The addition of a high detergent oil like Trans Tuneｮ may cause the hydraulic fluid to become dirty sooner than normal as it cleans built-up contamination. When the fluid is dirty, change it.

Flushing the Hydraulic System
To flush a hydraulic system, add 1 pint Trans Tuneｮ to every four gallons of hydraulic fluid to re-liquefy old hydraulic oil residue deposits and suspend contaminants in the fluid. Allow at least 30 minutes of operating time at full operating temperature before changing the hydraulic fluid to allow Trans Tuneｮ to clean. Trans Tuneｮ can also be added to the fresh hydraulic fluid as a preventative maintenance additive to prevent future residue and moisture buildup.

De-Ice Frozen Hydraulic Fluid
To de-ice frozen hydraulic fluid, add 1 pint Trans Tuneｮ to every four gallons of fluid. Tran Tune dries the built up moisture that freezes in low temperatures.

Bottom question, is the Sea Foam converting the water to a gas and then venting it out of the hyd system.

 

[MikeD74T]

JJ, Read a recent thread recommending Sea Foam Trans-Tune. I have moisture in my hydraulics & just got a can of transtune. Will post results when I see some. MikeD74t

 

[devildog1]

Wow JJ,
I think the only way your question could be answered truthfully is if someone actually has had an issue with water or moisture in there hydraulic system and added Sea Foam. Then I would imagine you would have to completely drain system to check for moisture or water, right? Is this something your going to do on of your tractors or are you just curious?
DevilDog

 

[DJNebraska]

I keep a case of water absorbing filters in my shed for just this purpose. Each one of them will filter the oil, but also pull out water.

This one is really common:
Hydraulicstore.com, Case of (12) LFF15 Water Absorbing Filter, 1"-12 Thread, 4 oz. Water Capacity
Hydraulicstore.com, Single LFF15-1 Water Absorbing Filter, 1"-12 Thread, 4 oz. Water Capacity

This one is less common, but still used:
Hydraulicstore.com LFH5011-W Water Absorbing Filter, 1-1/2"-16 Thread, 15 oz. Water Capacity

On some machines I own, I use this filter year-round. Any time my reservoir exchanges air (cylinders extending and retracting), it pulls in moist air. It's a nice way to prevent water from becoming an issue.

There are reservoir breathers that will take the moisture out before it enters. My experience with those is that they're bulky and expensive to maintain.

Water in the oil can be a real nightmare, so I can appreciate the thread JJ.

 

[J_J]

Actually I am curious about the claims, and if it will change the milky emulsified fluid back to normal looking hyd fluid, I think I would be impressed.

Once the fluid is emulsified, there are high priced filtration units that will remove supposedly all the water.

I also understand about the special water absorptive filter with a certain compound to catch and hold the water, but they are limited to small units of water.

I am thinking of a test that would remove about 8 oz of fluid from a gal of hyd fluid, and adding 8 oz of water and run it through a small orifice several times to emulsify the fluid and make it a milky gray.

Now, do you supposed that if one was to heat up that emulsified fluid to about 200 degrees for about an hour, would that cause all the water to evaporate.

The sea foam test would involve another container of fluid that had been emulsified with 8 oz of water, and putting some Sea Foam in the container and see what the results would be.

You all know the hot pipe trick to see if the fluid has water in it, so after each one of the test, put several drops of the treated fluid on the pipe and see what the hot pipe test would show.

Some say it works and other say it did not do a thing . Sure I am skeptical of anybody that says they have the answer.

They also say to drain any water, and I am assuming they are talking about water that is in the hyd fluid that has not been emulsified.

 

[J_J]

I keep a case of water absorbing filters in my shed for just this purpose. Each one of them will filter the oil, but also pull out water.

This one is really common:
Hydraulicstore.com, Case of (12) LFF15 Water Absorbing Filter, 1"-12 Thread, 4 oz. Water Capacity
Hydraulicstore.com, Single LFF15-1 Water Absorbing Filter, 1"-12 Thread, 4 oz. Water Capacity

This one is less common, but still used:
Hydraulicstore.com LFH5011-W Water Absorbing Filter, 1-1/2"-16 Thread, 15 oz. Water Capacity

On some machines I own, I use this filter year-round. Any time my reservoir exchanges air (cylinders extending and retracting), it pulls in moist air. It's a nice way to prevent water from becoming an issue.

There are reservoir breathers that will take the moisture out before it enters. My experience with those is that they're bulky and expensive to maintain.

Water in the oil can be a real nightmare, so I can appreciate the thread JJ.

On those water absorbing filters, is there an indicator to change the filter, and does it have a bypass ?

 

[Soundguy]

I have used it as an aid in flushing a wet trans. In fact I used to use it often.. but now just opt for a couple pints of 90% rubbing alcohol.

the alcohol content of either is a polar solvent.. water is polar.

the water will be carried out in soloution with the drainings.

I also usually toss in a quart of diesel or mineral spirits to thin the mix to make it drain better. the solvent also helps cut some of the emulsion and stuff left sticking to the castings.

in real bad sumps I have used a garden sprayer full of solvent, alcohol and atf fluid as a spry n rinse.

solvent of choice: mineral spirits, diesel, kerosene.. etc..

 

[KubotaSam]

As I said in another post. 40 some years ago I worked for a farmer who swore that each tractor needed alcohol (drygas) in its hydraulic system to combat freezing in the winter. These tractors sat outside 365 days a year. It worked. Don't know what the grygas would do to a modern hydraulic system.

 

[Soundguy]

transtune is safe to use in a auto trans.. IMHO.. that shares lots of 'hydraulic' properties and similar oil type to a regualr hyd system.

alcohol is a polar solvent.. disolves water, blends with most oils.

thus you carry water in soloution, not suspension or emulsion ( that clogs filters )

soundguy

 

[temsan]

I'll try .Thanks

 

[jmanatee2]

I have used the water absorbing filters. You have to watch the return pressure because it will rise as the filters catch more and more water.

 

[J_J]

What you say is true, and will absorb small amounts of water. Does the color of the fluid change from milky back to new looking fluid?

Do you know if the filters are absorbing free water or is it removing water from emulsified fluid?

If you looked at the 4 jars of fluid collected from different stages of fluid cleaning, that was not done by heating alone. They probably used a combination of vacuum, centrifuge, absorbing medium, and other extraction processes.

What they don't say, is anything about the compounds that were changed.

Does the fluid meet the same specs as new fluid. Some of the additives would almost have to be replaced, and only a full analysis would tell one this data.

Cooking fluid in a turkey cooker to make the fluid like new is just a back yard mechanics dream. It just ain't going to happen.

Would you let someone try and clean up your contaminated fluid by backyard experimentation, and put it back in your tractor?

 

[Soundguy]

. Some of the additives would almost have to be replaced, and only a full analysis would tell one this data.

I'd almost have to guess that the emulsifiers, and perhaps detergents would be used up!

soundguy

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have to think that cooking the oil would be something similar to gave a few drops of water in cooking oil. Everything is fine till the oil reaches above 212f and the water turns to steam which a loud pop and blows a bunch of oil out of the skillet. I would think the same would happen with the turkey frier. Maybe a pressure cooker type of vessel would hold some of the exploding oil inside while releasing the water vapor. I cant see heating the oil to 250F is going to hurt it as it has to get much hotter than that before it would burn off. Anyone with an old electric skillet and some milky hydraulic oil, might try setting the thermostat for 275F and cooking some to see what will happen. I would do this outside though and keep an eye out for the wife.:laughing: Lots of soap would clean it up afterward.

 

[J_J]

Where are you getting your figures for vaporizing/boiling water. I always thought it was 212 degrees.

I am thinking 275 degrees will destroy/burn the fluid and leave you with a big mess.

I think you are setting up some unknowing individual for a good scalding.

If you have good knowledge of this process of cleaning up emulsified fluid, perhaps you can try it and produce a working paper on the process, and perhaps get a patent on this concept.

 

[jmanatee2]

You do not have to get the oil anywhere near 275, you can remove the water at 180 or 200 (Evaporation) It will take longer but it will come out.

Remember, manufactures want you to run generators and engines regularly to remove moister from the fluid in them and they only get up to 190 maybe 210

Big equipment use scrubbers on hydraulic oil all the time, of course they have 50 or more gal in them.

Most systems I have looked at use vacuum and heat to increase speed. Some do it like a kidney (setup on the side of the machine while it is in use) others remove most of the fluid, clean it replace it repeat

This is an example
Washington Marine Cleaning

 

[J_J]

Excerpt from the above link, and says what I have been saying all along. .

[ There are different approaches to removing water i.e. absorptive filtration, centrifuges, and coalessors. These three methods will remove free water from the fluid leaving dissolved water behind. The only method for complete water removal from hydraulic fluids is Vacuum Dehydration. It just so happens that I don't posses one of those units, and I can probably guess that none of you have one ether. ]

Notice that the top three will remove free water, and that is water that has not been emulsified.

It is just not practical to suggest the layman or tractor used can or even should attempt water removal. Preventing water entry would be the best policy.

The facts above are proof that you and I can not achieve what you are thinking, to recover nasty oil that has been emulsified, and use as new or good oil in a money saving adventure.

 

[sandman2234]

Where are you getting your figures for vaporizing/boiling water. I always thought it was 212 degrees.

I am thinking 275 degrees will destroy/burn the fluid and leave you with a big mess.

I think you are setting up some unknowing individual for a good scalding.

If you have good knowledge of this process of cleaning up emulsified fluid, perhaps you can try it and produce a working paper on the process, and perhaps get a patent on this concept.

Don't try this, without some serious thought... However....
Boiling point of water is 212 (at sea level) due to atmospheric pressure.
If you reduce the atmospheric pressure, the boiling point goes down, (rather rapidly) SOOOOO.... if you put your contaminated fluid in a container and put a vacuum pump on it, the water will boil off at room temperature. This is done in the HVAC business all the time, but I don't recall ever hearing of anyone trying to do it with contaminated fuel or hydraulic fluid.
When I was in HVAC school, I took a piece of 1.5" aluminum and milled a hole in it, then drilled and tapped holes to mount Lexan to both sides. Then added a fitting to hook a vacumn pump and filled the hole 1/2 full of water. Turned the pump on, and as pressure dropped, the water would start boiling (at room temp). Drawback was I needed some way to keep the water from contaminating the oil in the vacumn pump, such as an in-line can cooled with ice to drop the temp enough to reliquidfy the steam to liquid before hitting the pump.
David from jax

 

[J_J]

Crackle Test.

This is a qualitative test for the presence of water that may be performed tank side. The Crackle Test is conducted by placing the fluid on a hot plate or even in a small piece of aluminum foll which is heated with a match using appropriate eye and face protection, as the fluid will make a "crackling" sound and spatter if it contains water.

Could also use hot exhaust pipe .

I used Dragon Naturally Speaking to enter this text. Seems to work fairly well but had to correct some mistakes.

It only cost me about $39 with rebate from CompUSA.

 

[sandman2234]

Crackle Test.

This is a qualitative test for the presence of water that may be performed tank side. The Crackle Test is conducted by placing the fluid on a hot plate or even in a small piece of aluminum foll which is heated with a match using appropriate eye and face protection, as the fluid will make a "crackling" sound and spatter if it contains water.

Could also use hot exhaust pipe .

I used Dragon Naturally Speaking to enter this text. Seems to work fairly well but had to correct some mistakes.

It only cost me about $39 with rebate from CompUSA.

Dragon N/S has been around for quite a while. I installed one of the early copies when I was heavy into building computers and playing with them way too much, back in the 90's. Program started out hard to install, but I am sure they have gotten that worked out, or maybe I am just getting better at installing programs, lol.
Cell phones now use basically the same thing for texting and email messages, and like the Dragon, does require some edits, but they really are getting better at it. For computer conversations and posting, the Dragon works good for people who aren't typists. My sister tried it for some of her work, but it slowed her WAY DOWN, but she types in excess of 130 words per minute. Me, I am lucky to get 20 (corrected wpm)
David from jax