Seeking Grapple Wisdom

[IslandTractor]

I think a ripper is critical. I have tied pushing over small trees with no success. The smaller ones just bend and the larger ones bend and break. I'm working mostly on Ash Trees. When my driveway was put in thru 900ft of hardwoods the excavator had to pull the stumps of lots of trees. All he used was a single tooth ripper on a large back hoe. Rip roots on both sides of the stump, reach over the top of the stump and pull the stump out. On some of the larger ones he had to rip all 4 sides several times going deeper every time. Even then at times he lifted the back of the back hoe off the ground. Gave me new appreciation for the strength of a oak tree. Every thing over about 12" had to be ripped first.

Certainly a ripper is necessary for larger stumps unless you dig a hole around it with a BH. I'm sure the type of tree makes a big difference as well as size. Most of what I knock over without a ripper are what we call chokecherry and have fairly shallow roots. I can knock over twenty footers without any problem but thirty footers and bigger need a little ripper work first before pushing over and grabbing with the grapple. A ripper is not as useful as a grapple generally but it's a great addition to a BH on a CUT if you have lots of medium size trees to remove. Best to rip the roots and take the whole tree down rather than cut the tree down first. The tree trunk and top gives great leverage for popping the rootball out.

 

[K man]

Here we go. Everything from the tips out was in the ground.

And tonight I was doing this same thing pulling up old fence posts.
If you can see it to line up the tips, you can pinch it.

That is the size that I am looking for my CK30. I have one question about the hydraulic hoses on this grapple. Looks like you had to install 2 outlets to accommodate this grapple for opening and closing. Can you show me pics of where those lines go and what had to be added to the joystick for operating this grapple. The reason I ask is what I have to do to accommodate my CK to a grapple. Did the original skid steer quick attach work on this grapple or did you have to modify it. Thanks for any info.
Gilles

 

[IslandTractor]

K man, what you are talking about is either a diverter valve or a true third function valve if you want to be able to control the grapple from the joystick. You do have another option which is to use rear remotes. I used rear remotes on my CK20 and a diverter valve on my DK40se so I've had experience with both. I know the rear remote control location on the CK30 as it is essentially the same as on the CK20.

First, let me get my bias out on the table: Go with rear remotes. There are multiple uses for at least one set of rear remotes besides just operating a grapple. A diverter or third function valve is essentially only useful for running a single hydraulic cylinder on a grapple or 4n1 bucket. Secondly, a set of rear remotes (actually you should get two sets installed at the same time as labor would be identical) is cheaper and ultimately more reliable than electrically activated diverter/third function. Finally, if I had to do it over again I would be just as happy to have my DK40se grapple operated by rear remotes. If you can drive a stick shift then you can operate a loader and grapple with rear remotes.

Now to directly address your question. On my DK, the diverter valve is mounted to the inside of the right FEL arm. Hoses travel forward to the torque tube where they are mounted. Hoses enter the diverter from under the operator station by traveling up the FEL mount post. Works fine. Doesn't look great.

If you used rear remotes instead, you would run two 3/8" hoses (about 17-18feet long as I recall) from your rear remotes (which would be mounted just above your topping lift to one side or the other) and then travel down, over the rear axle, under the operator station, up the FEL mount post and down the FEL arm to the torque tube where you could attach the lines permanently with a welded or bolted on mount or you could just ziptie them to the torque tube. I did the latter on my CK.

Regarding the skidsteer attachment plate, those are pretty much standard. The Kioti SSQA adapter on your loader will work with pretty much any SSQA implement. There are some minor differences in sizing that rarely require a shim or grinding to overcome but those incompatibilities are pretty uncommon and easy to fix.

 

[k0ua]

Here is a little thread on my extending the existing rear remote to the torque tube area for my grapple hookup.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-quick-connects-loader-torque.html?highlight=

 

[K man]

Island Tractor thanks for the info. I am not mechanically inclined to do that kind of modification. I think I will call my Kioti dealer when I do decide to buy a grapple and let them figure out the best options for me and have them install whatever it needs to run this grapple cause I would rather operate the grapple from the joystick not the rear hydraulic. I 've got all Winter to think about it thanks.
Gilles

 

[IslandTractor]

Island Tractor thanks for the info. I am not mechanically inclined to do that kind of modification. I think I will call my Kioti dealer when I do decide to buy a grapple and let them figure out the best options for me and have them install whatever it needs to run this grapple cause I would rather operate the grapple from the joystick not the rear hydraulic. I 've got all Winter to think about it thanks.
Gilles

Keep in mind that you don't need to do what James did in making a permanent installation of rear remotes off the rear remotes. Most of us just run hydraulic lines held in place by zipties and it works fine. I used that setup for three years on my CK20 with zero complaints.

And, remember that you can specify to your dealer that you want a couple sets of rear remotes before you take delivery. After that it is really only a matter of ordering the right hydraulic hoses (we can help) and buying a dozen zipties to get the rear remote solution working. Honest, you don't need to be mechanically inclined. Even if you decide to spend a grand extra on a diverter or third function valve installation at the dealer, have him put in the rear remotes anyway. There will be other tasks (besides grapple) that will benefit. Topping lift, splitter, snow blower etc are all rear implements that can use a rear remote to make work much easier.

 

[K man]

When you say rear remote you mean the lever for up and down of implements on the back or hydraulic hook ups cause I know my CK don't have any on the rear of the tractor only the four on the side of the tractor for the FEL or my Front Mounted Snow blower with hydraulic shoot. Sometimes terminology is confusing lol I do believe that anything you add or buy for a compact tractor is a good investment for future when it comes to selling value.
Thanks
Gilles

 

[ritcheyvs]

Here is one set of rear remotes on my DK45s (prior to installing a second set in the empty holes):


The connected hoses run the hydraulic topping lift. I later installed the second set for a tilt cylinder. If there were provisions for a third set, I'd install one.

 

[IslandTractor]

When you say rear remote you mean the lever for up and down of implements on the back or hydraulic hook ups cause I know my CK don't have any on the rear of the tractor only the four on the side of the tractor for the FEL or my Front Mounted Snow blower with hydraulic shoot. Sometimes terminology is confusing lol I do believe that anything you add or buy for a compact tractor is a good investment for future when it comes to selling value.
Thanks
Gilles

No. You are describing the 3PT hydraulics that raise and lower implements. Rear remotes (as ritcheys showed) are hydraulic valves that can be connected to a variety of implements or cylinders via quick couplers. They allow hydraulic power to be used remote from the tractor. For example, you could hook up a backhoe, a log splitter, a "top and tilt" setup to control pitch and angle of a back blade, a rear or front snowblower shoot etc. Whatever is connected to the rear remote is controlled by a lever that on a CK is sometimes just next to the 3PT control lever. On my CK20 I had one set of remotes and I believe it was controlled by a lever just outboard but in a parallel track as the 3PT. On my DK40 I have two sets fo rear remotes and they are controlled by levers mounted just outboard of the operator's seat at floor level and near the FEL joystick. I can easily reach the levers by simply dropping my hand off the FEL joystick. Just like dropping your hand off the steering wheel of a car/truck to reach the transmission lever.

You mention that you have a front mounted hydraulic shoot so you already have some remotes. How do you control the hydraulic shoot?

 

[k0ua]

I can easily reach the levers by simply dropping my hand off the FEL joystick. Just like dropping your hand off the steering wheel of a car/truck to reach the transmission lever.

It is even easier if you will extend that lever a bit as shown in this thread

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...sion-control-valve-lever.html?highlight=lever

 

[K man]

No. You are describing the 3PT hydraulics that raise and lower implements. Rear remotes (as ritcheys showed) are hydraulic valves that can be connected to a variety of implements or cylinders via quick couplers. They allow hydraulic power to be used remote from the tractor. For example, you could hook up a backhoe, a log splitter, a "top and tilt" setup to control pitch and angle of a back blade, a rear or front snowblower shoot etc. Whatever is connected to the rear remote is controlled by a lever that on a CK is sometimes just next to the 3PT control lever. On my CK20 I had one set of remotes and I believe it was controlled by a lever just outboard but in a parallel track as the 3PT. On my DK40 I have two sets fo rear remotes and they are controlled by levers mounted just outboard of the operator's seat at floor level and near the FEL joystick. I can easily reach the levers by simply dropping my hand off the FEL joystick. Just like dropping your hand off the steering wheel of a car/truck to reach the transmission lever.

You mention that you have a front mounted hydraulic shoot so you already have some remotes. How do you control the hydraulic shoot?

I control the hydraulic shoot with the joystick. I have four lines 2 got to the blower up/down and 2 to make the shoot rotate left/right. These are the same lines that I use on the FEL. Love this set up

 

[IslandTractor]

I control the hydraulic shoot with the joystick. I have four lines 2 got to the blower up/down and 2 to make the shoot rotate left/right. These are the same lines that I use on the FEL. Love this set up

Yes, if you have that set up for snow blowing then you are already prepared for a grapple. You'd control the grapple the same way for open/close instead of up/down. You might need to get a couple new hoses and fittings if the existing lines for the snowblower cannot be routed to approximately the middle of the FEL torque tube (the bar between the arms near the front) where you can attach the grapple.

 

[k0ua]

Yes, if you have that set up for snow blowing then you are already prepared for a grapple. You'd control the grapple the same way for open/close instead of up/down. You might need to get a couple new hoses and fittings if the existing lines for the snowblower cannot be routed to approximately the middle of the FEL torque tube (the bar between the arms near the front) where you can attach the grapple.

That ain't gonna work. He is going to need that FEL joystick to control the loader lift and curl. He will need a either a remote or a diverter or a third function setup. Those are your 3 choices. If you don't already have a rear remote, then the diverter setup will be the cheapest. If you already have a rear remote (I believe you indicated you did not) then it would be the cheapest.

 

[IslandTractor]

My mistake. I didn't realize that front mounted snowblowers used FEL hydraulics. I thought he already had front mounted remotes.

Back to rear remotes to control the grapple. Everyone should have at least one set anyways.

 

[K man]

That is exactly what I thought that I would need another hydraulic line to open and close the grapple. I saw a video on EA that showed a electrical control on the joystick to operate the open/close grapple. I think he used a diverter with a wire that went to a switch installed on the joystick which ran the grapple opening /closing at a touch of the thumbs. Will definitely look into that.
Thanks for your inputs gave me lots of options.
Gilles

 

[N2DFire]

That is the size that I am looking for my CK30. I have one question about the hydraulic hoses on this grapple. Looks like you had to install 2 outlets to accommodate this grapple for opening and closing. Can you show me pics of where those lines go and what had to be added to the joystick for operating this grapple. The reason I ask is what I have to do to accommodate my CK to a grapple. Did the original skid steer quick attach work on this grapple or did you have to modify it. Thanks for any info.
Gilles

Hey Gilles,

As you have already been told - there are 3 basic choices Rear Remotes, Diverter, and 3rd Function. The Pros/Cons of each of these has been discussed in the forums at great detail and you are free to pick which works best for you.

I opted for 3rd function because it felt the most "natural" and easiest to operate. There are pre-made kits to add a 3rd function to your tractor (WR Long being the most popular and the one EA sells). Again I opted to take the "hard way" and build my own set-up. It's actually not that difficult to install, the majority of my issues were in the design/engineering phase.

I have a write-up of my project here - there are also a couple updates thru the thread so everything is not in the initial post.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/358086-kioti-ck-35-3rd-function.html

If you decide to tackle this yourself, there are many many knowledgeable people here that can help you out and answer questions for you.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[GMIslander]

Ritcheyvs, I also have a DK45 and just got this grapple. I like the size and delivered price.
48" Single Cylinder Root Grapple Bucket Attachment — Skid Steer Attachment Depot