Seeking long term reliability information

Anonymous Poster · Mar 1, 2003

One of the things that sold me on the purchase of a Power Trac was the all hydraulic system and the reliability advantages that it provides. I also own an old Case/Ingersoll garden tractor. These units are also hydraulic drive and use hydraulic attachments. You can find many of these units that have been in service since the late 60's or early 70's that have needed little done to them other than engine overhauls.

However, I do have two specific areas of concern with the power trac design related to long term reliability. 1) the wheel motors appear to not have external bearings to absorb lateral loads on the motor shaft which I would think would lead to premature motor failure and 2) the articulation joint does not appear to have any bushings in it that can be easily replaced if wear occurs.

I guess I'd like to hear from anyone that has put a lot of hours on one of these units or has talked to someone that has put many hours on one to let me know if my concerns are unfounded. I'd also be curious to know if anyone has had wear in the articulation joint and repaired it by installing a bushing.

GarretV · Mar 1, 2003

A little sidestep to this topic. Could someone point me, or post, a closeup picture of the articulated joint? I'm trying to visualize how the joint can function and yet take all the loads these machines can produce.

Thanks,
Garret

bubenberg · Mar 1, 2003

if you search under pt maintenance and Moss Road you will see some excellent pictures and verbiage

good luck /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

duane · Mar 2, 2003

PatH,

The white wheel motors do have fairly high radial and thrust load capabilities. I can't remember the bearing hour lifetime that these loads are based upon. I think the machine that has the highest hours on it is Dave with his PT1418, around 1100 hrs. I suspect the front wheel motors to have problems first since they take the brunt of the FEL weight and forward direction hydraulic pressure. I watch Hans' posts with interest as he puts on the most amount of hours using it in a commercial application.

That bottom articulation joint does not seem to have replaceable elements. I keep that one greased as much as possible.

Good post
Duane

GarretV · Mar 3, 2003

Arrghh. Thanks Hans! I've been all over MossRoad's site in the past but forgot all about his pictures in the maintenance section...

Garret

Schultz · Mar 3, 2003

does anyone know what series wheel motors they use in the 400 or 1400 series?

davesisk · Mar 3, 2003

Hey Pat:

I probably have the one with the most amount of hours on it (a 1990 PT1418), but I have no idea how many hours. The hour meter wasn't working when I got the thing.

As far as I know, one wheel motor had a leaky seal that had been repaired. It looks to me like they are the original wheel motors. The articulation joint doesn't appear to have any unusual wear that I can tell.

The biggest problems I've had have been mostly very simple things (like hoses bursting and needing to be replaced, throttle cable breaking, hour meter not working, engine coil that I cooked replacing the ignition switch, corroded battery clamp, etc.) The guts of the machine appear to be as solid as when it was new.

The only wear that I can truly noticeable detect is where attachments hook up. Mine has the old 3-pin attachment method rather than the newer quick-attach. The pins and the welded eyes have some wear, and are a little loose. For instance, there's a little slop in the curl of the bucket because of this, but it's only noticeable when it's in the down position perpendicular to the ground (it'll swing a couple of inches back and forth).

I don't have any doubt that once I finally get all this ancillary stuff fixed and replaced, I'll get years of service with little or no problems other than the occasional hydraulic hose.

HTH,
Dave

BobRip · Nov 25, 2006

duane said:
PatH,

That bottom articulation joint does not seem to have replaceable elements. I keep that one greased as much as possible.

Good post
Duane

I also tighten the bottom joint every 10 to 20 hours. It takes a 1 13/16 inch wrench.

BobRip · Nov 25, 2006

Let's rate the reliability. Do you feel that your PT (give us the number) is more, the same, or less reliabile that your other tractors, riding mowers, or cars. I know this is going to be rather arbitrary, but we hear so much from the people with problems and not the ones operating OK. Of course we should hear from both.
I would say mine is about the same as my riding mower. It is much better than the 69 Rambler that I had for 14 years. Yes, I kept it running that long because after a while I knew everything that normally went wrong with it and could repair it quickly.

I personally like the simple transmission on the Power Trac. Basically it's a few hoses.

NJBill · Nov 25, 2006

GarretV said:
A little sidestep to this topic. Could someone point me, or post, a closeup picture of the articulated joint? I'm trying to visualize how the joint can function and yet take all the loads these machines can produce.

Thanks,
Garret

try these

MikeOConnor · Nov 26, 2006

I'll refine BobRip's post -- a 5 is really good, a 0 is really bad.

I'd give my 1850 a 1 on that scale -- it's really unreliable compared to all the other cylinder-based devices.

The Kubota M6800 takes oil-changes and grease -- that's it. Never any down time. Whereas I've had all the same kind of issues that AltaVistaLawn is ranting about. Seals, hoses, wheels, tires, overheating, blah blah blah. The "Usual List".

But I love the machine anyway -- I really liked the "open source tractor" notion that appeared in a recent thread. Yep, it's unreliable, but it can be fixed pretty easily, and usually improved along the way so that the issue doesn't happen again.

BobRip · Nov 29, 2006

MikeOConnor said:
I'll refine BobRip's post -- a 5 is really good, a 0 is really bad.

I'd give my 1850 a 1 on that scale -- it's really unreliable compared to all the other cylinder-based devices.

The Kubota M6800 takes oil-changes and grease -- that's it. Never any down time. Whereas I've had all the same kind of issues that AltaVistaLawn is ranting about. Seals, hoses, wheels, tires, overheating, blah blah blah. The "Usual List".

But I love the machine anyway -- I really liked the "open source tractor" notion that appeared in a recent thread. Yep, it's unreliable, but it can be fixed pretty easily, and usually improved along the way so that the issue doesn't happen again.

To simplifiy this question try this: Would anyone not buy their PT again because of reliability issues?

MossRoad · Nov 30, 2006

BobRip said:
To simplifiy this question try this: Would anyone not buy their PT again because of reliability issues?

Not me. I'd buy another PT425 in a heartbeat. It is no more or less reliable than any other piece of equipment I own, and does a heck of a lot more work than anything else. I was doing about 3 hours of yard work a week with small riding mower, shovels and wheelbarrow. My goal was to cut it down to 1 hour a week. PT425 has 250 hours on it at the end of 5 years. I hit my target, wheelbarrow is retired, so is riding mower. I kept the shovel in case the neighbor's dog comes to visit, if you know what I mean.

pajoube · Nov 30, 2006

BobRip said:
To simplifiy this question try this: Would anyone not buy their PT again because of reliability issues?

Without a question, I would purchase again but much earlier that I did.
My 425 is as much a part of my daily life that I could not get along without it just as I could not get along without a vehicle.
PJ

jfh28 · Nov 30, 2006

I'm just 1 year old and hit 50 hrs. I felt like I was such a light weight here compared to some of the hours you guys put on. But I see that MR averages 50/year so I don't feel so embarrased now. Absolutely I would buy again. This past weekend I used it to dig out 2 septic tanks to get them pumped. We're on rock so by hand this would have been hours or days with a shale bar. With the PT it was less than 15 minutes each. Probably could have been quicker if I was a better BH operator.Oh, by the way MR, you can toss your shovel too. That's what the LMB is for. Unless you have dogs like us, in which case I'd recommend the grapple bucket!Jack

MossRoad · Nov 30, 2006

jfh28 said:
.... Unless you have dogs like us, in which case I'd recommend the grapple bucket!Jack

Hahahaha. Those are some big dogs.

Barryh · Nov 30, 2006

jfh28 said:
I'm just 1 year old and hit 50 hrs. I felt like I was such a light weight here compared to some of the hours you guys put on. But I see that MR averages 50/year so I don't feel so embarrased now. Absolutely I would buy again. This past weekend I used it to dig out 2 septic tanks to get them pumped. We're on rock so by hand this would have been hours or days with a shale bar. With the PT it was less than 15 minutes each. Probably could have been quicker if I was a better BH operator.Oh, by the way MR, you can toss your shovel too. That's what the LMB is for. Unless you have dogs like us, in which case I'd recommend the grapple bucket!Jack

1 year 65 hours here. I've used mine for everything including picking up, and taking out the trash cans. I even pick little things up off of the ground with the forks, the wife laughs at me.

Last year during a snow storm I would go out in the garage get in the cab with my walkie talkie, garage door opener, big cup of hot Chocolate and I have a small mounted tool box inside where I keep some tools and extra items.

When I opened the garage door it was like being in the NASA moon rover, 4 wheel drive crawling through the white stuff everywhere with my electric arm on the front ( front end loader )

Loved it.

At this point if I didn't see my PT parked in the garage every day after work, I’m sure I would need therapy.

Phils · Nov 30, 2006

I've had my share of little problems, mostly the vaporlock thing but....

I only wish I'd bought my 422 years ago!

I haven't touched my wheelbarrow in the two years I've owned the PT. I just went over 200 hours (required service is nagging at me).

I still use a shovel, just not for much digging. I drag much less brush than I used to since getting the grapple bucket. My place looks much better now that the stump grinder has done its work (although my chainsaw keeps making more stumps).

And a GREAT unexpected benefit: when we have work parties at our archery club's 80 acre range, I take the PT in my pickup and use it while everyone else is doing work manually. I ALMOST feel guilty, but since I accomplish 20 times what everyone else does I'll live with the feeling.

Phil

MuncyBob · Dec 1, 2006

I too wish I bought my PT sooner. Have never regretted the purchase and have many times mentioned the phrase "best $$$ I ever spent". The machones have their issues though, from the heat/vapor lock deal to frame openings that need padding to avid hydraulic lines from wearing through...etc etc.....but these are all things that a person with limited mechanical ability(like me) can take care of. My only regret on the actual purchase was not getting the larger bucket and if I had to do it over I would get the 425 and no seat arm rests. But I'm happy with what I have!

bbabineau · Dec 1, 2006

BobRip said:
To simplifiy this question try this: Would anyone not buy their PT again because of reliability issues?

I purchased my PT 1430 almost a year ago and now have 60 hours on the meter. Never having had a tractor before nor a piece of property needing one made me a bit nervous at first but the experience has been wonderful.

Had to remove a wheel motor and send it to PT for repair but that has been my only issue.

I have built a parking area with french drains for my trailers, a bridge to access my rear acreage, mowed the brush on the property and yes, I too take out the trash with my PT.

I know that there can be issues to resolve but having antique cars for the last 20 years has taught me that issues can be resolved.

I would buy a PT again without question.