Seized rusted engine

[09112]

Okay Guys, I'm new at this so navigating this site presents a challenge. If I can't thank you after your helpful remarks, please accept my gratitude before hand.

Now the problem: I am trying to restore a 1948 Allis, B model. The head has been off for years and the tractor has been exposed to Oklahoma weather during this time. Mud daubers, rain, vines that have stickers, leaves, snow, the whole ball of wax. Needless to say the pistons and sleeves are rusted. It has had no oil pan attached during that time and I see that one of the bottom bearings has been removed and the crank is rusted, at least in that one position. Does anyone have a suggestion to free the pistons/crank? Would it be possible that the crank is rusted under all the bearings as well? My problem is I have a bunch of passion for this job but I lack experience since the 40s and 50s when I was a kid messing with old cars. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Personally, for the shape that engine is in, I'd pull it off the tractor and tear it completely down...

B Allis motors come off very easily...

SR

 

[Raspy]

Sounds like it is in terrible shape.

Probably the best way to break the pistons loose is to clean out the bores the best you can and pour in some penetrating solution, like WD40. Let it sit for a few days and add more as it works it's way past the pistons, if it does.

Re-install the bearing and cap.

Then try to bar it over with a pry bar working the ring gear teeth. This might work best where the starter mounts to give you a place to pry. Pry forward and backward harder and harder until it actually moves. This can seem very brutal, but it's about all you can do unless you pull the crank and beat on each piston with a block of wood and a 5 lb hammer to break them loose. That ruins the pistons for sure.

I've done the pry bar action before and saved the engine.

When this problem comes up and the head is still on, you can fix a zerk fitting into the spark plug hole and use a grease gun to apply serious force. An old spark plug drilled out with a pipe fitting welded on to accept the zerk is a good method.

 

[jaxs]

Unless this tractor is the only one you are willing to settle for,I suggest starting with a running tractor,even if it also need's work. If it must be this tractor,take the block,head,crank and anything else with moving surfaces to a machine shop for vatting and testing for cracks. The sleeves are ruined,possibly rods and pistons also. Fill cylinders 1"deep with 25% acetone/75% transmission fluid. Remove crank then with wood block against rod and/or sleeve,try driving piston and/or sleeve out top of block. Chances are sleeves will come out with piston stuck inside. I don't believe sleeves are worth saving but you can put assemblies in a container of same fluid. If you succeed in separating them,mic pistons before wasting time on wrist pins.

 

[stuckmotor]

09112,
I wish you success with your restoration. AC tractors occupy a warm spot in my heart.
When questions like this come up I read the responses to see what I can learn and have come to expect the acetone ATF recommendation that Jax gave. Having read Raspy's recommendation I also am waiting to see how long it takes for the WD40 haters to weigh in.
Until I get the time and energy to apply some of the recommendations I've read to my own AC, I'll have to continue to call myself, Stuckmotor.

 

[fried1765]

09112,
I wish you success with your restoration. AC tractors occupy a warm spot in my heart.
When questions like this come up I read the responses to see what I can learn and have come to expect the acetone ATF recommendation that Jax gave. Having read Raspy's recommendation I also am waiting to see how long it takes for the WD40 haters to weigh in.
Until I get the time and energy to apply some of the recommendations I've read to my own AC, I'll have to continue to call myself, Stuckmotor.

Here I am!
The first of the WD-40 haters.
I suggest that the WD-40 be poured in a glass, and mixed with some very poor quality rum (don't drink it ....just throw it away!).

If you REALLY want to free up an engine: use "Kroil"
If you can't find Kroil, you can make your own very good penetrant, by mixing ATF, and laquer thinner 50/50.
WD-4- is for ladies, who want to temporarily stop a door from squeaking.

 

[jaxs]

09112,
I wish you success with your restoration. AC tractors occupy a warm spot in my heart.
When questions like this come up I read the responses to see what I can learn and have come to expect the acetone ATF recommendation that Jax gave. Having read Raspy's recommendation I also am waiting to see how long it takes for the WD40 haters to weigh in.
Until I get the time and energy to apply some of the recommendations I've read to my own AC, I'll have to continue to call myself, Stuckmotor.

PB Blaster also work's but get's expensive usless you only need to loosen one or two rusty nuts. Ever heard of "The Hot Wrench"? It's the go to by those too impatient to wait while atf does it's thing.:hissyfit:

 

[09112]

Thanks a bunch for some sage advise. I think the suggestions of getting rid of it and getting something that runs has merit. However, I'm having fun and at the moment it doesn't eat anything so I will continue with the ATF recommendations and pry bar. Will be back with more problems and let you know how things turn out.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I've pushed rusted (but not siezed) pistons out with a plate bolted to the cylinder block and a large bolt running through it. Put a chunk of metal on the piston, or you'll punch right through it.

 

[Stimw]

I rebuilt a 4 cylinder Mercruiser Boat engine some years ago.
It had sat with salt water in 2 cylinders for 3 weeks.
I had to bust those pistons to get them out.
My guess is that you will have to remove pistons and liners together.
I also rebuilt a 9-N Ford engine that was locked up.
I removed the head and 1 cylinder had sat with water in it.
When I turned the crank by hand the cylinder and liner pushed up and were easy to remove.
You might try that if the crank is not frozen to the rods.

 

[D2Cat]

Maybe this will help as what to use.

https://www.cyclefish.com/forums/topic/132611

 

[Egon]

Personally, for the shape that engine is in, I'd pull it off the tractor and tear it completely down...

B Allis motors come off very easily...

SR

That would be the logical solution.

 

[jaxs]

While we wait for 09112 to finish up unsticking/ overhauling the Allis and need's tune-up and paint tips,let's discuss why people have conflicting results when it come's to best products for various perpouses. In the case of freeing rusted bolts,this is what I believe. Acetone/lacquer thinner carry's a bit of lubricant into rust and in turn allows more and larger molecules of lubricant to follow. The action is similar to a wood splitting wedge,progressivly larger molecules following smaller ones into tight quarters. If that is true you might ask why some smart cookie doesn't package and sell this magic stuff. Actually they did until lawyers took over desighn and engineering in manufacturing. WD40 was mentioned so let's take it as our example. WD isn't the same as it was when you wasted your dad's on your bicycle chain. How many of you remember when dad used WD as starting fluid? Try it today,it doesn't work. Some fool set himself on fire then sued the manufacture,retailer,freight company and the kid next door for his stupidity. WD changed the formula. Remember when dad couldn't find his WD because the can was lying empty where you finished greasing the bike? No problem,dear old dad grabbed his Liquid Wrench,gave the mower a shot,cussed and yanked the rope. There are a few luck dogs with the same can of lubricant they been using for years and it works well. There's others that haven't messed with rusty stuff since getting a well paying job but recall how well xxxx brand penetrating oil worked and will tell you about it.

 

[TimberHole]

I keep mouse milk around. Good stuff!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I'm thinking what changed in the WD40 was the "propellant", not necessarily the formula...

From what I read, they use to use "propane" for the propellant and switched to something less flammable.

BTW, both Liquid Wrench and Blaster are a LOT better at breaking things loose than WD40...

SR

 

[bigdeano]

I don't know how people are mixing Acetone and ATF. When I tried it they wouldn't mix together. I had to use lacquer thinner instead.

 

[crazyal]

My first question is why did someone remove the head and oil pan to begin with. Sounds like someone had a serious engine failure and realized the motor was going to cost a lot to fix and just left it.

 

[California]

Wasn't WD40 intended to get under and lift crud off of metal, not for a lubricant, or for freeing seized parts? It does a mediocre job for those tasks but there are much better products in both categories.


And: Which variety of ATF for the acetone (or lacquer thinner) penetrating solution? Is there a preference?

 

[lennyzx11]

I had bought a 47 Farmall H once that was in similar shape. The 50/50 mix was poured directly on top of each piston about an inch deep or so and covered up with a tarp over the motor.
Whenever I walked by I'd make sure there was a little bit standing in each cylinder. And I left an old prybar leaning against the tractor that I'd try to nudge the ring gear teeth with one way or the other.
Seems like it took about three weeks of this scientific approach and I got a surprise on day when it moved!
Motor ended up being too far gone vs replacing it with another I had ran across.

PB Blaster and SeaFoam are the two favorite penetrating oils here.

 

[D2Cat]

WD40 was developed by a chemist for the space industry. Goal was to find a product to stop/slow down oxidation of metal (rust).

On the 40th formulation the goal was reached. Thus the name WD (water dispersant)40.

It's not a penetrating oil, even though many think and use it as such. Best use it to spray it on something you don't want rusting, like your saw blades.