Septic Repair!

[Paddy]

I have twenty year old septic....and it has a hot spot. Anybody with a septic system or a friend with said septic, knows of the wet time of year. And hey here we are. My "wet" spot was agrivated by a room addition where the soil was shaved off that section in the back filling. Not deep but... These wet spots can be found after a good rain or when you expect company. I often part my tractor over the spot or sail boat. What ever will cover the back yard walker from discovering I have a HOT spot.

So we will be selling some time and need to fix this problem. I live in an area where septic rebuilds are "new site..mound type". The cost is APITA and our 20 ac is all woods ...eccept the septic field/house.

Options;

1 Cover the spot with a good 12" of good ol' red clay
2 Have one of those field repair guys come in where they bast the field with high presure air to break up the field
3 Dig a new finger my self with my BH /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif in the wood snakeing arond the 24" dia trees. no one will do it for me due to the fact...it's illegle

So any ideas on how to fix an old septic??

Patrick

 

[CurlyDave]

Dig a new finger my self with my BH in the wood snakeing around the 24" dia trees. no one will do it for me due to the fact...it's illegle

Are you sure it is illegal? Could it just be that no one is willing to do that job because of the extra labor?

The reason I ask is that we are puttting in a new septic system in OR and we are legally going to snake the drain lines around lots of trees.

Your best bet may be #2 followed by a variation on #1, which would be to use topsoil instead of red clay. The whole idea with a septic field is aeration and I bet that red clay is impermeable to both air and water.

At least this way you are legal.

In most states if you do something like an illegal septic modification and fail to disclose that to buyers, you have enormous liability. This is not something you can hide. If you have made a good faith effort to repair the problem properly you still have to disclose it, but a year-old working repair is not a real negative. If fact, even if you just wait for a dry spell to sell the house, you still have to disclose the septic problem.

 

[rambler]

Not exactly sure what a hot spot is, I'd understand a wet spot, is that what you mean?

Parking machinery on top of the septic field compacts the soil, and causes problems.

When was the last time you had the tank pumped out.

Kinda hard to tell you to go break the law, the rest of us have to live with the rules & expense too. When you sell, anything wrong you do will come back on your head, better to do it right if the plan is to sell for sure.

--->Paul

 

[ns_in_tex]

I have no idea if it is true or not, but someone told me, in our area a home owner could legally add 20' per year of field line without a permit. Anything more requires permit.

 

[Paddy]

In my area, field repair will most often require abandening the old.

Adding a line to failed feild is a no-no. In my case due to the woods, I have no open space

 

[tawilson]

If you have a bh, why not just replace the whole drain field yourself? As long as you know what to do and you feel you can put in something that will work. I did last year. Till the 30 days of rain hit. I've got to finish the grading and topsoil if it ever dries out this spring. The hardest part was trying to figure out what I had to start with and where it was.

 

[LBrown59]

Sure Glad all i have is a drain pipe.
Solves all those problems with leach beds and mounds.

 

[Highbeam]

Use option one but use a good sandy soil that will still grow grass. You say you shaved off some soil, was that soil removed over the drainfield? If so, replace it with sandy loam. You don't really want more than 6" of cover over the drainfield and you don't want to drive on it. Do not put clay on top of a drainfield which needs air to work right.

It is entirely possible that bringing the surface back to grade and pumping your tank if it needs it might bring everything back into shape and is within the scope of normal maintenance. If not, you're selling the place, so hide the problem. Fill the spot so that it goes away, sell in the dry season, and move on. I wouldn't disclose a thing. If the next owner has a problem then they are likely overloading it.

Really folks, when you buy a used home, car, or whatever you have to expect things like this. There will be toothpaste in the walls to fill nailholes, rotten facia boards behind the freshly cleaned gutters, paint over mold in the bathroom.

 

[ByronBob]

I have some questions for you.

Do you know that the tank, distribution box or the leach lines don't have a break in them? I mean the soiled spot might be the water coming into the d-box area and sitting there because it's broken. Have you dug the area's up to make sure yourself.

Assuming all is well. Could you find the ends of the leach lines and extend them out longer. Most places have 4 lines or more 50 feet in length. You could go longer without compromising the system.

Adding to the existing system to me doesn't seem as much as a no-no as deliberately doing something illegal. I guess I need to know more about your situation to make an educated answer.

 

[Paddy]

Basicly, repairing a system in any way is forbidden with out permits. The problem is 99.9% of the time, they say you need a new system. In my hill county, a mound is the only way for repairs. Since I'm completely in the woods and much$$, I don't want to go there if I can make the fix.

I have already run a gray line system. That is where you dirvert all non toilet water out of the septic system. In my case just over the hill. I'm in the middle of 20 ac. 600-700 feet from the road and more to the closest neighboor. I only have problems when it's wet conditions and even then not so bad.

I do want to fix it right but if the county get's involved it can turn into a $15,000 job. So that is why ran the gray out and want to add some material over the spot I have considered creating a raised mulch bed over the spot. Plant a few boxwood bushes and turn it to a land scaped area.

The clay idea was the reverse of 'hogging in a pond'. Clay seals preaty good. I do see that evaporation is key too. I've seen once you have a break out, it can be tough to stop the flow.

I posted this to see if anyone else has had a wet spot and fixed it with 'home remidy'. As far as the tank, I have it pumped every 3-5 years.

I can add a finger without cutting into an active finger. If you ever seen a septic disturbed, you know why you don't want to get near one!

 

[CurlyDave]

If not, you're selling the place, so hide the problem.

Not only is this morally dubious advice, it leaves you open to liability when a purchaser discovers the hidden problem. And, the problem is not going to stay hidden for very long.

I would be very surprised if there is not an enhanced liability for deliberate concealment of a problem rather than the simply liability for failure to disclose a known problem. Tripple damages is common, plus paying both sides legal fees.

By the way, your insurance company has no obligation to provide either liability coverage or a legal defense for a deliberate act.

I agree than new "mound' or "sand filter" systems can cost $15 to $20k. I suspect they would be substantially less expensive if you installed them yourself.

You should explore the possibility of how much repair work you can legally do before requiring a whole new system. It might be worthwhile to "enlarge" the existing drainfield by cutting down some trees and doubling its size. Then abandon the old one. Problem solved without a new mound system.

 

[Highbeam]

In our real estate climate the seller has the upper hand. The high road, as Curly Dave points out, would be open disclosure. Just tell them what you know. Tell the future buyer that at times during the wet season, there is a wet area in this part of the yard above the drainfield. Your septic system has always performed for you and ahs never backed up into the home. You have very good maintenance records and no bad record with the health department.

It is what it is and when you sell it in the summer, the buyer will have a hard time imagining a wet spot. The wife will say who cares. Make it a take it or leave it as-is deal, no guarantees.

It is a can of worms to fix it legally or not. As soon as an agency smells a chance to stick you with an upgrade you can be redtagged and the house will be uninhabitable until the 15k$ mound is installed.

If you see sales lost because of it, lower your asking price by no more than it would cost to build the mound.

I apologize for my sometimes dubious morals.

 

[ByronBob]

My system is new and when the ground is saturated it has a wet puddle which dries up after the soil drains better. It doesn't run off. But I know it's working because it's new.

All my water from the house goes to it. No grey line or other channeling as you've put in. In my old home I never did a thing to it and there was never a wet spot. But when it came time to sell it the d-box was crumbled to nothing. Had to fix it.

My thoughts and I'm guessing is that this issue has just developed in the not too distant past and that leads me to believe something else is different. Either a line is broke, the d-box is or something to make the wet spot develop.

You've had the tank cleaned but what about the d-box and the lines. My neighbor just mentioned to me that a line of his is plugged but he didn't know about it until the cleaner told him. It's funny how some systems work broken and others like yours which are working don't......

My home remedy will be sand and grass. When it dries up I'm filling the low spots. I don't consider this doing anything malicious but just the ground settling after the system was put in.

If you were to add another leach line or extend the ones you have I'd consider them improvements which for the sake of political tape and the like (permits) I'd not worry about all that much. You have the tools to do it with and not need to publically announce the issue to anyone you don't want to.

 

[drm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...Really folks, when you buy a used home, car, or whatever you have to expect things like this. There will be toothpaste in the walls to fill nailholes, rotten facia boards behind the freshly cleaned gutters, paint over mold in the bathroom. )</font>

Highbeam,

I purchased a home from some one like you. And, the problems have been major. We will likely end up spending three to five years correcting problems with the house that were either constructed incorrectly to save money or covered up. If I sue, I will most likely do so for SIX figues or more.

Is that worth it? I have sold several houses and had to disclose everything. Why should you not?

 

[rambler]

Septic systems have become highly regulated in most areas. In my state, the law states you must have it pumped by lcenced pro every 3 years; must be built & repaired by licenced pro, field may not have more than 12" of soil over the top, must be built on undisturbed soil, no greywater systems at all.....

And so on. Some few regions have lesser rules on this, but it gets real hairy to try to make some non-regulation modifications of _any_ kind & then sell the place. 'Here' you don't touch the septic, & sell it as is, where is, no warrenty of any kind on the septic.

Oh, did I mention, old septics are grandfathered in as long as they don't cause any problems, but any time property changes hands the septic must be brought up to newest code? And code seems to be revised every 2-5 years.

You would really open yourself up to issues if you modified the septic on your own before selling the property. Both the county & the new owner would be on your tail real fast.

That is how it is in Minnesota. Other places can be different.

--->Paul