Septic Tank Chemistry
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Soundguy
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kind of amusing to read about those that think you need to get your system pumped regularly.
if you need it regularly.. you have a problem.
I'm involved in waste water systems maintenance and design.. both for residential and municipal use. Primary effluent treatment, be it cesspool or septic system or large scale type 1 ponds... if the system is healthy and digesting, not getting too much water or chemicals thru.. it should be all but 'permanent'
problems arish when things go in that shouldnt.. or rather.. when too much of the 'bad stuff' goes in.
too much water, any type.. if you are overrunning oyur drain field.. you have an undersized system.
if too much washwater goes in, more of the above, plus much of it will be a biocide.
same with cleaners... most are abiotic.
flush 'meds' don't help either.. nor does that urine stream when you been on a zpack for 2 weeks when you get down to it.
that's when you look at helping it out if it needs it. a bio booster pack.. pumping if it solidified from overuse.. or drain field help if it crystalized or got root invasion.. etc..e tc..
the bulk of my college study was in water systems engineering, both potable, and gre/waste. one of my thesis papers was onthe Mas effluent tunnel project.. and other similar ways to handle waste.
hmm.. lets just pipe it out to the ocean.. Yummy..
soundguy
if you need it regularly.. you have a problem.
I'm involved in waste water systems maintenance and design.. both for residential and municipal use. Primary effluent treatment, be it cesspool or septic system or large scale type 1 ponds... if the system is healthy and digesting, not getting too much water or chemicals thru.. it should be all but 'permanent'
problems arish when things go in that shouldnt.. or rather.. when too much of the 'bad stuff' goes in.
too much water, any type.. if you are overrunning oyur drain field.. you have an undersized system.
if too much washwater goes in, more of the above, plus much of it will be a biocide.
same with cleaners... most are abiotic.
flush 'meds' don't help either.. nor does that urine stream when you been on a zpack for 2 weeks when you get down to it.
that's when you look at helping it out if it needs it. a bio booster pack.. pumping if it solidified from overuse.. or drain field help if it crystalized or got root invasion.. etc..e tc..
the bulk of my college study was in water systems engineering, both potable, and gre/waste. one of my thesis papers was onthe Mas effluent tunnel project.. and other similar ways to handle waste.
hmm.. lets just pipe it out to the ocean.. Yummy..
soundguy
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Soundguy, if you were to build a new house and you needed an onsite waste water system, what would you do? Who's widget would you buy if any? Old School leech field or new school? What system, in your opinion, is the best?
Soundguy
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i used to be old school with perftube and gravel.. but now I'm pretty sold on an infiltrator or similar type systems with plastic sectionals.
that said.. you don't see many seperate wstewater systems in tandem with septic systems her ein my area of florida. 1, you'd need nearly 2x as much land. Any place that is on well water, you can't have the well closer than 70' to a drainfield.. septic or not. with lots sizes as low as 1/4 ac in communities that do not have muniipal or group handles utiloities.. you run out of surface area quick... For industrial purposes.. A DRA/WRA with a perc structure inthe center would be fine drainage and runoff .. grey.. etc..
that said.. you don't see many seperate wstewater systems in tandem with septic systems her ein my area of florida. 1, you'd need nearly 2x as much land. Any place that is on well water, you can't have the well closer than 70' to a drainfield.. septic or not. with lots sizes as low as 1/4 ac in communities that do not have muniipal or group handles utiloities.. you run out of surface area quick... For industrial purposes.. A DRA/WRA with a perc structure inthe center would be fine drainage and runoff .. grey.. etc..
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My dad got started as a kid installing tanks. Later he and i did them together and we always used a leach field with sock pipe. Later we went to the Infiltrator dome sections for surface area. But now near the water we have to start using the treatment plants and im not jumping though hoops to do them.
We never pumped out tank here in 32 years. We started out with a steel and tar tank that used to be standard here. It collapsed, It wa on a weekend and dad was about to head out on the road again so we cut a 500 gallon fuel tanker that we had and made a tank out of it. It lasted about 10 years and never had to be pumped. A large gum tree grew in that area and one day after a storm we went outside and a bird house on the gum tree was 4 feet closer to the ground and the toilet got slow. Had to dig it up. Put in a 1000 gallon concrete tank and we have never had it pumped. We add yeast a few times per year.
When Amy and I bought the house its just the 2 of us so its way under loaded. The biggest problems with tanks are over watering from tubs and showers and washers. And the second is soap and chlorox. We often put in a seperate tank or 2 well tiles and a short field line to the main leach. for the other waters.
We never pumped out tank here in 32 years. We started out with a steel and tar tank that used to be standard here. It collapsed, It wa on a weekend and dad was about to head out on the road again so we cut a 500 gallon fuel tanker that we had and made a tank out of it. It lasted about 10 years and never had to be pumped. A large gum tree grew in that area and one day after a storm we went outside and a bird house on the gum tree was 4 feet closer to the ground and the toilet got slow. Had to dig it up. Put in a 1000 gallon concrete tank and we have never had it pumped. We add yeast a few times per year.
When Amy and I bought the house its just the 2 of us so its way under loaded. The biggest problems with tanks are over watering from tubs and showers and washers. And the second is soap and chlorox. We often put in a seperate tank or 2 well tiles and a short field line to the main leach. for the other waters.
Soundguy
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ditto that.
near the coast and in wet areas there are alot of perched septic system and charge pump setups.. not ideal at all down here in florida..
have had to remove some old steel tank structures.. but never installed any.. officially except maybee the od limited use barn system wink wink..
I've never had to have a tank pumped at any place that I built new, and didn't get stuck with previous owners 'sins' already in the tank..e tc. ( knock on wood )
Like I said earlier. people who have to get their tank pumped on a regular interval have a problem / are doing something wrong..
near the coast and in wet areas there are alot of perched septic system and charge pump setups.. not ideal at all down here in florida..
have had to remove some old steel tank structures.. but never installed any.. officially
except maybee the od limited use barn system wink wink.. I've never had to have a tank pumped at any place that I built new, and didn't get stuck with previous owners 'sins' already in the tank..e tc. ( knock on wood
)Like I said earlier. people who have to get their tank pumped on a regular interval have a problem / are doing something wrong..
kenmac
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some info on septic systems
http://www.discountportablerestrooms.com/SEPTIC TANK.pdf
Septic Systems - Bacteria and Enzymes
http://www.discountportablerestrooms.com/SEPTIC TANK.pdf
Septic Systems - Bacteria and Enzymes
Soundguy
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some people fail to understand this.
when they build, they will opt for the smallest service system they can permit.. and then run 3 tubs worth of water into it a day, plus 2 showers, and 4 loads of laundry and 2 loads of dishes.
bleach and bubbly soap in every load, and all the semi plastic and cardboard (um... applicator ) and synthetic fiber 'sanitary wipes' junk that will flush.. um.. 'napkins' and contraceptives..e tc. stuff that just really don't digest well...
I have a buddy that uses the rv hi digest toilet paper and adds some rv holding tank treatment packs to his system yearly. He's never had a pumpout either.. his place was built inthe 50's.. he HAS had to rebuild his drainfeild and put in new sock pipe after trees and bushes got it.. but we did it ina day with a small backhoe. My stepdad built his place in 72, he was in construction with army corp. of eng in nam... his systems never been pumped.. bi level house 2 story, underground.. it lived thru 3 kids, 2 wives and now plenty of grandkids ... and my mom has this special radar that when an article of dirty clothing hits the floor somewhere it sets off an alarm and she goes and finds it and washes it..
she's go thru washers every 3-5 years my stepdad finally got her an industrial laundromat styel set of front loaders.. and they are holding up good now the last 7ys i heard...soundguy
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Septic tank is basically like your tummy, the bugs are slightly different, but really just burns off waste that gets dumped into it. The unburnable stuff drops to the bottom, the very hard to digest stuff like grease floats to the top.
Eventually the bottom fills up with dirt and sand and metal and other tiny bits of solids that can't go anywhere else. Might take 6 months, might take 30 years, but eventually the tank will get full of solids. If the bugs aren't doing a good job, the tank fills with poo as well, tho if it were working well it shouldn't so much...
Sometimes your tummy is upset, sometimes it needs a tumms or some pink stuff to feel better. But hopefully it's mostly always in good shape, working fine. You don't really take any 'bugs' to keep it working, you just eat well and everything is fine.
Likewise a septic tank, the magic powder or the yeast doesn't do a thing for it. The natural bugs that come from you will make it work and work well. Don't add too much water, and don't overload it with too much garbage disposal waste or grease, and keep the harsh chemicals down, and it will work fine for you. Pump it once in a while - none of them will work _forever_, if you hear that the person is too dumb to know or lying to you, they all will fill up with solids that are not digestable - it just depends how many & how well or poorly it is being used. Some frugle folk can probably go more than 30 years without filling the tank, others will fill it in 3 years or less as Soundguy says.
I'd pump any tank of property I bought, and pump it again in 3 years to _see_ where I was at, an experienced pumper will know if it was getting full again or if it would have gone decades. These days grandfathered in septic systems you want to keep working as long as you can, the new permited nes are electrical nightmares with pipes a foot from the surface even tho in my location the frost will go down 4 feet in a cold winter... You don't want to have a problem with your old working setup!
The additives being sold are just snake oil if you have a good septic system, and not a very good bandade if you have a poor one. Waste of money.
--->Paul
Eventually the bottom fills up with dirt and sand and metal and other tiny bits of solids that can't go anywhere else. Might take 6 months, might take 30 years, but eventually the tank will get full of solids. If the bugs aren't doing a good job, the tank fills with poo as well, tho if it were working well it shouldn't so much...
Sometimes your tummy is upset, sometimes it needs a tumms or some pink stuff to feel better. But hopefully it's mostly always in good shape, working fine. You don't really take any 'bugs' to keep it working, you just eat well and everything is fine.
Likewise a septic tank, the magic powder or the yeast doesn't do a thing for it. The natural bugs that come from you will make it work and work well. Don't add too much water, and don't overload it with too much garbage disposal waste or grease, and keep the harsh chemicals down, and it will work fine for you. Pump it once in a while - none of them will work _forever_, if you hear that the person is too dumb to know or lying to you, they all will fill up with solids that are not digestable - it just depends how many & how well or poorly it is being used. Some frugle folk can probably go more than 30 years without filling the tank, others will fill it in 3 years or less as Soundguy says.
I'd pump any tank of property I bought, and pump it again in 3 years to _see_ where I was at, an experienced pumper will know if it was getting full again or if it would have gone decades. These days grandfathered in septic systems you want to keep working as long as you can, the new permited nes are electrical nightmares with pipes a foot from the surface even tho in my location the frost will go down 4 feet in a cold winter... You don't want to have a problem with your old working setup!
The additives being sold are just snake oil if you have a good septic system, and not a very good bandade if you have a poor one. Waste of money.
--->Paul
