setting the posts for the pole barn..

mopower440 · Dec 2, 2003

Got the holes all dug to set the posts in but now i am confused, how do you go about getting the posts perfectly lined up and in square? Naturally i will take a level to make sure they are standing perfectly straight, but how do i get them perfectly in line with each other and all of them square before nailing on the skirt boards and stuff? also, after i get them where they need to be, do i brace all 14 posts up with 2x4's until i nail the skirtboards and girts on or what? That would be a lot of 2x4's!

Junkman · Dec 2, 2003

This is where the planning stage is important. All the holes have to be in alignment with each other and and the entire series of holes needs to be square to each other. If you are not certain as to what you are doing, I suggest that you stop and regroup and learn about the project from top to bottom. You don't want to be building and learning this lesson one segment at a time. I have home building experience and I wouldn't tackle a job like this with out learning all segments of the project before I put the first shovel into the ground because I have never built a pole barn. A mistake in the beginning will only become more exaggerated as you get further into the project. Also, this isn't a building that you can skimp on materials just because of cost. If it isn't sound, then it isn't safe... Depending on where you live, possibly there will be someone that lives near you that is on this site with pole barn building experience can give you some free assistance in the form of direction and tips. We all learn from our mistakes, but you want to limit your mistakes to the less expensive ones if possible. What have you projected as the cost for this pole barn and what is going to be the finished size? How high is the building going to be and what do you have planned for the roof?

bebster · Dec 2, 2003

Junkman's right about getting it right from the get-go. But for a short answer, the usual way to get them in line is with alignment strings that serve as references on all sides. To make sure it's square, measure the diagonals and make sure they are equal. That means it's easiest to set the corner posts, and then set the inside posts in alignment with them.

Justaplain · Dec 3, 2003

Chapter One = batter boards and string----- bcs

CTyler · Dec 3, 2003

Hopefully you already set up your batter boards and made measurements to get your holes all inline/squared and made them big enough to compensate for small errors.

Pound in a couple stakes and tie a string to them. Align your poles to the string edge making sure that they are plumb.

Once you have one side done, long side, you need to square the next side. This can be done with the strings and a measuring tape. Example 30, 40, 50' measurements. Make it plenty long. This is just the Pythagorean theorem.

If your not familiar with what I'm talking about then make a spot and measure out 30' on one side and then mark that spot. Measure out 40' from the first spot but at 90deg(aprox). Now measure from the end of the 30' measurement out to 50'. Where the 30 and 50' points cross creates your square to the first line.Its much easier to use two tape measures. This is hard for me to explian for some reason.

In short measure a 30' line. Put a tape measure at each end of that 30' line. Measure out 40' with one and 50' with the other. Now touch the ends together and you will have a triangle. The 40' measurement is now square with the 30' line you previously laid out. Make sense?

Now you can line up you posts for the next side. I would get all your strings set up first though to check that everything is ready to go.

Edit...
Corrected my numbers to 30, 40, 50' measurements.
Mathmaticaly this is A2+B2=C2
You can jump these numbers up or down to suit your needs. Something I did incorrectly earlier, sorry.

Example: 15, 20, 25 or 60, 80, 100

Longer measurements will have less error.

SteveBenson · Dec 3, 2003

That's the way to go!

Also, place a nail 1 1/2" inches over from the line your posts will line up with on the batter board and use this to string your line. Then use a small piece of 2x4 (slide between the pole and string) when checking that your poles are in line. This will keep your string away from the poles and prevent the poles from pushing your string out of line.

PaulT · Dec 3, 2003

What CTyler is explaining is how to use the 3,4,5 triangle to find a right angle (also called the Pythagorean Theorum). This theorum says that when you square each of the 2 right angle sides (legs) and add them together, they always equal the square of the third side (hypotenuese) of the triangle. Mathematically this is written as A squared + B Squared = C squared. It is called the 3,4,5 triangle since the smallest size whole number triangle this works for is one that measures 3 by 4 by 5. (9+16=25). While CTyler has the instructions correct, his numbers are off. You should use 30,40,50, not 20,30,40. If you follow his directions, but where he said 20, use 30, where he said 30, use 40 and where he said 40, use 50, it will work. Now, 50 feet is pretty big, so a better idea is to use some other multiple of the 3,4,5 triangle, since 3,4,5 is too short to get your longer sides straight. If you are building a 20x30 building, use 12, 16 and 20 for the measurements, and it will come out the same, since 12,16,20 is the 3,4,5 triangle multiplied by 4.

As for the rest of your planning, if you don't have someone who has done it a few times before actually on the job site, you will need to get a book on Pole Barns. Take a trip to Lowes or Home Depot or Barnes and Noble and buy one. I have the one by Monte Burch, but there are others out there as well. Even if someone is helping who does have experience, you will be much more useful on the job site if you have read one of those books through, in my opinion. With one of those books anyone who can read can do it if they have time, energy, money and a few good friends willing to help! Good Luck!

CTyler · Dec 3, 2003

Ha!!...You posted while I was correcting that...LOL!!!

NIXON · Dec 3, 2003

Mopower .... Gotta ask what you used to determine where the poles were to go in the first place ? How did you actually mark the holes and decide they were spaced properly and that the building was square ? I'm sure the book you picked up mentoined how to do it . No offense to You in any way , but are these posts a "WIND UP " ? Please forgive me if I'm wrong . But laying out a building should have been covered in the book you bought on the subject . If it wasn't ,then it's a rip off of a book . I'd love to help you out anyway I can . Feel free to PM me if You feel you need some answers to your concerns . If I can't give you a decent answer I'll ask the guys on my crew for ideas . All the best John

mopower440 · Dec 3, 2003

we used the 6,8,10 principle to square it and ran a string line for the posts, then marked with stakes, same way you guys are talking about, just wondering if there was another way to actually set the posts, but the string and stakes is how we were planning..what do you mean by 'wind up' posts?

NIXON · Dec 3, 2003

mopwer . I apologize ! A Wind up " is a post that asks questions just to get a response from folks . IE blowing Smoke ,Etc . Again sorry for the comment .
The way you discribed and the suggestions of others is the way to go ( batter boards ) Low tech to be sure , but the best way to lay out a structure .
Now that you've dug the holes , set your strings on the batter boards so they are at the outside dimensions of the poles .
(building size minus three inches if your using 2x4 for girts .
Tedious but simple . All the best John

Slamfire · Dec 3, 2003

I'd use stakes, similar to the ones you used for the batter boards, and then put a length of 2x4 crosswise on them and spike the post to the 2x4. You'll have to do this in both directions for the corner posts. You can use your initial girts for lining up the remaining ones, that will cut the bracing in half. You'll want to use the girts closest to half way up the poles.

cj7 · Dec 3, 2003

mopower440
I am wondering if you can post us some pics of your layout and holes that have been drilled. Many times a picture can really help. I am just trying to understand how your not able to get the poles lined up if you you strung a layout.

mopower440 · Dec 4, 2003

Dont have a digital camera, we havnt tried to line them up yet, im asking because the holes are bigger than the posts are, we walerd them out to between a foot and 14" wide, therefore, the posts will have to be lined up in the holes.. i figured setting the strings back up would be the way, but i wanted to make sure..and no, these arent wind up posts..lol..i just like to verify my ideas with people that have hands on experience with this..lol..when you said 'wind up posts', i thought you meant some type of posts for the pole barn..lol..you had me wondering! anyways, i set the 4 corner posts, then string in the rest of them, ok, should i be filling in the holes as i go or just brace them all up until the entire frame is together so i can move the posts if need be? Just trying to figure out this stuff, its not covered in the book..

SteveBenson · Dec 5, 2003

Backfill the posts before framing and after getting them in the right place /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't have well draining soil, so I backfill with stonedust.

Also, it helps to make sure your posts are a little longer than you need. This keeps you from worrying about getting the depth of your post exact. It's hard enough getting the poles into the right postion without worrying about the depth too. Use a chain saw to top the posts after framing.

mopower440 · Dec 5, 2003

Good deal! Going to put the posts up on sunday, now this will probably sound like a stupid question, but, what type and length nail should be used to nail the skirt boards and girts to the 4x6 posts? I was thinking 3 1/2 inch and maybe using a decking nail so they wont be prone to pull out, what do you guys recommend here?

SteveBenson · Dec 5, 2003

If all your girts, skirts, and purlins (depending on how the are set) are 2x? then you should use a 20D pole barn nails spaced 2" OC. The fastening system in a polebarn is very important, especially for larger buildings. If you only have 14 posts your building can't be to big though. Pole barn nails are ring shanked and case hardened to prevent pull out and add shear strength, respectively. It's best to drive them by hand. And once they go in don't count on them coming out without completely destroying the surrounding wood, so don't use them for temporary bracing.

For medium to large steel sided pole buildings I would also use strap bracing to add shear strength to the walls. In general metal siding, unlike plywood or OSB, adds no significant shear strength to a wall.

ponygirl · Dec 8, 2003

Hi, this conversation couldn't of happened at a more opportune time. I'm in the process of building a pole barn as well. I'm now putting on the roofing material but to answer your question, we used batter boards and string. We dug a hole and sunk a pole as we learned earlier that if you dig a whole and it isn't centered where it should be, well...that's a lot of extra digging. Anyway, we used 2x4s to hold up each and every post (which we later re-used for purlins). We put a concrete paver in the bottom of the hole and depending on where the post was located determined how we measured it. Mine is a shedrow style barn with 5 12x12 stalls, etc, etc. Anyway, we used sacrete- 3 80lb bags a post. We added 1 bag then 1 gallon of water, 2 bags and 1 1/2 gallons of water and let it cure.

dirtbone · Jul 19, 2012

mopower440 said:
we used the 6,8,10 principle to square it and ran a string line for the posts, then marked with stakes, same way you guys are talking about, just wondering if there was another way to actually set the posts, but the string and stakes is how we were planning..what do you mean by 'wind up' posts?

One more thought about squaring and such- I'm doing a similar project right now and do not have the luxury of having a nice level building site. Make sure that when laying out your lines that they are level, don't just follow the grade or your measurements will be off because the slope differences will be different from post to post and will cause an out of square layout.

RxRatedZ71 · Jul 19, 2012

Be aware that despite the bottom of the posts being square, as they dry out, the tops can sometimes bend out of square. We had to use ratchet straps and the tractor bucket to square the tops of a few posts. As many know, its easier to make it true BEFORE you start putting your skin on it.