Sewer Hookup and Backhoe

[KTurner]

Our county is putting a sewer system in our neighborhood that we have to hook up to. Something about EPA and chesapeake bay pollution.

In the family, there are three houses that need to be hooked up (cha-ching). They said a general rule of thumb is $20/ft for a plumber to run the line from the house to the hookup point. One run ~65ft, one at ~100ft and the last at ~200ft. That's about $7,000. There's no significant obstacles that I can see (not heavily wooded, no major elevation changes). Not sure exactly how the water lines run, but thats what 'call before you dig' is for.

I have a Ford/NH 3230 (2wd, no remotes). I'm considering trying to find a used 3PH backhoe and getting the needed parts to run the hydraulics so that I can do the digging myself and save some money. This would be the first time I've ever done any digging work. I don't know that I'd have a use for the backhoe after this project, so I could probably sell it after I'm done to reclaim most of the purchase price - but keep the hydraulic remotes. I've thought about renting, but that would make me feel rushed to get the job done quickly. I would still need to either switch the line over myself, or find a plumber willing to do the job with me doing the trench. And the county require that the existing septic tank be pumped and filled/crushed/etc

Is this a really bad idea or a way to save some money (and add hydraulics to the tractor)? Any been-there-done-that words of wisdom? I have about a year to figure this out.

Keith

 

[bucktaker]

unless you have other needs for it. Rent a track hoe or backhoe for a weekend. save more money

 

[JB4310]

Yeah rent a mini excavator, will do much better and faster job than anything you buy.

Sewer install is pretty easy provided you have no major grade changes that work against you.

Does your house sewer go thru the wall of your basement, or under the floor.

Usually with septic it goes thru the wall, if you upgrade to sewer, you can go below floor for future gravity drains. But that requires you to dig deeper near the house, and depending on the topography of your yard, may have to stay deeper the whole way.

JB

 

[Coyote machine]

Rent. By the time you find a workable hoe for your tractor, pay for it and rear remotes and then the steep learning curve to dig with it and then try to do several ditches to state specs you could rent a hoe and hire a guy to run it and be done. Plus resale recoup is not what you think it's going to be.
Rent- job done.

 

[Luremaker]

I don't think you guys understand... he "wants" us to say "buy the hoe attachment", "many future uses", "best thing I every bought was my hoe", "go for the hoe"

I say if you will have other uses for the backhoe attachment look around and see what the total cost will be. This might be your only opportunity to purchase a family subsidized hoe or it may backfire and you may end up subsidizing your family's sewer installations.

 

[Bigkrank]

Around this area you are required to go to a class to be able to do it yourself then they come out and inspect it before you cover it up. Just some thing else to be aware of.

 

[Mark Page]

I've got money that says it'll still cost $20.00 per foot. There'll be some bogus reason why your work will be inferior. Not deep enough or too deep or you didn't finish in time to accomodate the plumber's schedule. Those guy's are all in bed together. Had the same problem with the electric company when we ran power to the stables. Trench had too many turns. I dug it to avoid damaging a bunch of Hollys that I paid dearly for.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hey, you've got a YEAR! Break out the neighborhood kids with a shovel!!:thumbsup:

 

[Luremaker]

I've got money that says it'll still cost $20.00 per foot. There'll be some bogus reason why your work will be inferior. Not deep enough or too deep or you didn't finish in time to accomodate the plumber's schedule. Those guy's are all in bed together. Had the same problem with the electric company when we ran power to the stables. Trench had too many turns. I dug it to avoid damaging a bunch of Hollys that I paid dearly for.

Heck, who needs the plumber... just dig the trench to required depth, add required sand (if any required), pack it down, lay and glue sewer pipe, cover pipe with more sand, place warning tape and back fill. I've down it a few times and it's not that hard. It's not like he is installing a septic system. He has a year to plan this out and really want's the backhoe attachment.

 

[AndyMA]

The run on your property won't be the problem. In the areas where I've worked only trained and licensed people are allowed to do the tie in at the street, Also if the roadway is asphalt you'll need to cut it and repair it.

In most areas where you are required to put in a sewer connection you can finance it over many years and make the yearly payments on your property tax bill.

Andy

 

[Luremaker]

The run on your property won't be the problem. In the areas where I've worked only trained and licensed people are allowed to do the tie in at the street, Also if the roadway is asphalt you'll need to cut it and repair it.


Andy

Around here you are only responsible to run the line to end of your property. The municipality does the rest. If you have to actually tie it in and dig up the roadway it will be a different story.

 

[ultrarunner]

$20 a foot would be a bargain... $50 is the going rate where I am and the permit fees to the city just to replace a section of existing line is close to $900.

 

[BethesdaEC]

I don't think you guys understand... he "wants" us to say "buy the hoe attachment", "many future uses", "best thing I every bought was my hoe", "go for the hoe"

I say if you will have other uses for the backhoe attachment look around and see what the total cost will be. This might be your only opportunity to purchase a family subsidized hoe or it may backfire and you may end up subsidizing your family's sewer installations.

He is about to make a large purchase and unfortunately has choose us to confirm that sanity of his decision. Go for it, I don't use my BH all the time, but when you need it, is great to have. I can switch to the backhoe in about 10 minutes, which beats the hassle of dropping everything and renting a piece of equipment. There are a lot of little thing you could use a backhoe/excavator for but won't go to the hassle of renting for a 10 minute job.

 

[Artisan]

My opinion only, not jumping you at all, but one post prior that says it is EASY is VERY wrong. Sure, somethings can be easy but what will you do it there is a problem?

Oh it's easy! Anyone can do it, just lick it and stick it and call it good right? THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE for a skilled, journeyman, plumbing contractor. Ending up w/ a belly in the line, or no clean outs evey 135* of directional change, and of corse you will not test it / fill it w/ water and look for an issue...or will you?

What % grade will you lay it at? What will the base under the pipe look like? How many bolders will fall on it during backfill? Will you use shielded bands or all rubber? PVC, Vetrified Clay or ABS SDR??? How do you plan on making a PLUMB cut on the existing line? What are you going to do it you break the existing line when your cutting it? What are you going to do w/ the existing tank? There is a LOT more than lickin' it and stickin' it...

I am a professional plumbing contractor. 85% of my money is made fixing what the guy who knew enough about plumbing to be dangerous did, prior to me, because it was a handyman or a homeowner trying to save a buck.

If you do something wrong, who ya gonna call? HA! Betya, your homowners policy covers NOTHING outside the footprint of the home!

You going to get trench shoring or chance it? How deep is it? Exactly where is it? You going to permit the job?

Last week I Invoiced over $10,000.00 on a property w/ 600' of sewer, ONLY ONE CLEAN OUT instead of 6 or 7 or more depending. It was substandard workmanship, no excuse. It saved the plumber a LOT of money deleting all those 100' MANDATORY clean outs. HA! Ka-CHING! I made BANK fixing it.

(It's easy, anyone can do it! ) :laughing:

Think real hard before you tackle something like this.

 

[RoyJackson]

Since some places allow use of plastic sewer pipe now, it probably wouldn't be a bad job for a home owner. If cast iron is required, you've got to know how to ensure you get the proper "fall" and lead the joints (ever used oakum?).
Well, the correct "fall" is required regardless of the pipe material.

I was a plumber's helper after high school (before I got drafted). I've been in a lot of sewer trenches and I hate that job. If you plan on renting an excavator (I wouldn't buy a backhoe), plan on renting shoring too.
And, I strongly caution about working in a trench after a rainfall!!

 

[Mounted Madness]

Our county is putting a sewer system in our neighborhood that we have to hook up to. Something about EPA and chesapeake bay pollution.

In the family, there are three houses that need to be hooked up (cha-ching). They said a general rule of thumb is $20/ft for a plumber to run the line from the house to the hookup point. One run ~65ft, one at ~100ft and the last at ~200ft. That's about $7,000. There's no significant obstacles that I can see (not heavily wooded, no major elevation changes). Not sure exactly how the water lines run, but thats what 'call before you dig' is for.

I have a Ford/NH 3230 (2wd, no remotes). I'm considering trying to find a used 3PH backhoe and getting the needed parts to run the hydraulics so that I can do the digging myself and save some money. This would be the first time I've ever done any digging work. I don't know that I'd have a use for the backhoe after this project, so I could probably sell it after I'm done to reclaim most of the purchase price - but keep the hydraulic remotes. I've thought about renting, but that would make me feel rushed to get the job done quickly. I would still need to either switch the line over myself, or find a plumber willing to do the job with me doing the trench. And the county require that the existing septic tank be pumped and filled/crushed/etc

Is this a really bad idea or a way to save some money (and add hydraulics to the tractor)? Any been-there-done-that words of wisdom? I have about a year to figure this out.

Keith

Lets break this down based on what you've provided.

1. You must hook up to the county sewer system due to EPA and pollution requirements.
2. You have almost 400 feet of trenching to do.
3. Estimated cost is $20 per foot.
4. New remotes for your tractor installed by dealer - $1,000 approx.
5. Used 3ph backhoe - $5,000 approx.
6. Your time getting remotes installed.
7. Your time locating and buying a used backhoe of questionable condition.
8. You then have a learning curve from installing the unit to operating safely.
9. You complete the job after spending at least 50% more time doing the job an experienced bonded operator with his own equipment would take.
10. You then proceed to try selling the backhoe you bought on your own.
11. You haven't taken into account any damage you may have caused while doing the job, including buying the wrong sized equipment to fit your tractor.
12. Finally, most jurisdictions require a licenced individual, plus appropriate equipment,shoring and other safety requirements need to be met when digging below a certain depth.

I'd say the estimate of $20/foot is reasonable. I'd also say it's based on knowledge geology and soil types in your area. As well, you've got experience that would make short work of the task at hand, and it would be done correctly, with minimal damage to your property.

Perhaps, you can reduce the cost by doing the backfilling with your machine.

Let the experienced guys do the job. If you screw it up, or do something that creates a costly problem down the road, are you prepared to fix it? Considering the fact you will be dealing with sewage/black water - your risk if you do the job, could result in considerable extra cost if not done properly.

Your costs to get set up, plus the risk if you screw up, plus the cost of developing your expertise to a competent level seems a lot higher then getting someone out to do the job for you efficiently.

Good luck in whatever direction you choose to take, but please besafe.:thumbsup:

 

[KTurner]

Great replies so far!

The county rep told me that a homeowner could do the hookup themselves. There will be required inspections, whether the homeowner or a plumber does it. There are no 'hard obstacles' in the way (boulders, roads, buildings, etc). One connection is a straight line, two exit the house at abt 90 degrees from the main run. There's only a couple feet of elevation change on the 200ft run, but the elevation change works against me (house is lower).

The $20/ft hookup estimate is just the plumbers take to go from the house to the sewer connection. I doubt that includes pumping the septic tank and filling it in. There's also a ~$4,000 hookup fee going to the county, a $xx monthly sewer bill and, to add insult to injury, they'll most likely increase the assessment of the houses, so our property taxes will go up also. The county will finance the hookup fee, but the guy basically said the finance rate is so high I'd be crazy not to go to a bank instead.

I'm not looking for an excuse to buy a new toy. If I did buy a used backhoe, I would sell it after completing this as I don't see myself using it enough to make it worthwhile. I'm looking for realistic ways to lessen the costs of this. I can't do anything about the hookup fee. I can't pump the septic tank myself, though I could probably fill it in. Digging the trench seems to be the best opportunity to save some money.

I'm a little aggravated by this, but trying to keep the thread objective. This is a $20k+ expense to the family that we did not ask for, that we won't really get any benefit out of. Our septic systems are working great.

Keith

 

[jenkinsph]

Most of the new sewer taps in out area are brought to the property line with a cleanout to the street. If this is what you have then it is possible to DIY.

About the one with the house which is lower, have you checked the elevation of the tap? Sometimes the tap is low enough to work if not you will need a lift station and power for it. I should also mention that lift station require periodic service/repair and are messy little devils. Don't install it in a clean room.

I suspect that this is a better project for someone who already has a backhoe and some experience and seat time. Such as one of the local plumbers or excavating contractors that already have practice digging a trench with a smooth bottom at the proper grade. Sure makes it easier to bed the pipe behind an experienced operator.

I wouldn't bother with renting a backhoe or buying onw for this work with plans to sell thereafter. You aren't going to save any money imo. The profit an experienced plumber makes on a job such as yours is possible because he would have the proper tools and know how to be more efficient than a novice.

 

[billybobjimmyjoejack]

In the state that I live the home owner can do all of their own plumbing and electrical work and you can use any relatives to help you with either. Of course you still have to have the proper permits and it will have to pass inspection. I bought my tractor used then started looking for a used hoe right away, I was not able to find one so I bought a new one. It has been the best purchase I have made for the tractor, I also added a manual thumb, also a great addition. If you decide to purchase a backhoe there seem to be more used ones available now then when I was looking. Mine has a subframe and hooks up to my PTO so no remotes required. I have used my backhoe many more times than I originally thought and yes I also seem to have more friends. Good luck on your project.

 

[AGGIE00]

Renting a mini would be much cheaper and go much faster than your tractor. If it were me I would do a little survey work before you tackle the job. If you find there is a decent amount of grade difference or slope between the connection stack and your existing service, and excavation will be less than 5', I say go for it. Calculate your slope percent and rent a dial in grade laser to maintain grade and prevent bellys. It's not hard to do if you use a bedding material like sand or pea gravel.