socallly
Bronze Member
I had the same problem I sent registered letters telling my nieghbors that I would fix the road for free but nobody responded finnaly I just did it my self
Shared Road Issues
- Thread starter dooleysm
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Defective
Platinum Member
How willing are you to start a fight with the ones who refuse to pay?
I'd get together with the ones who ARE willing and work up a plan. Put the plan in writing.
Improve the road only as far as the last house that pays. Ditch both sides of the road. Put in culverts for ONLY the ones that pay.
When someone complains about inability to access their house, offer to fix them up, for a fee. Do not underprice the work. If they don't like this idea, show them the written plan.
I'd get together with the ones who ARE willing and work up a plan. Put the plan in writing.
Improve the road only as far as the last house that pays. Ditch both sides of the road. Put in culverts for ONLY the ones that pay.
When someone complains about inability to access their house, offer to fix them up, for a fee. Do not underprice the work. If they don't like this idea, show them the written plan.
I'm not willing to fight anyone over this. I will just get my car stuck every morning at 4 AM for a week straight and leave it there until 5 PM. I have a very liberal vacation/leave policy where I work.
I'm going to try to get pictures of the road in question sometime to post here. I'm sure you'll all be amazed and astounded. Unfortunately, we've been switched to Central Time here in southern IN and I am not home during daylight hours. I don't think I'll be home in the daylight this weekend either, so it may be a while.
I'm going to try to get pictures of the road in question sometime to post here. I'm sure you'll all be amazed and astounded. Unfortunately, we've been switched to Central Time here in southern IN and I am not home during daylight hours. I don't think I'll be home in the daylight this weekend either, so it may be a while.
rox
Veteran Member
Well it is kind of to late now but I'll just reinforce what Eddie and others have written.
There are 6 homes using a road, through the generosity of the current property owner, none of you have legal easements.
The road is in poor condition.
You have lived there 3 years and don't know your neighbors.
You have sent 2 letters and 4 people out of 6 wish to improve the road.
I think that you are pretty lucky that you got 4 people to agree and you should just do whatever the 4 of you can pool together and do.
I doubt if anyone is going to commit to any legal permenent association considering none of you have any legal "right" to the road. Are you not concerned that you purchased a property with no legal ingress and egress? Is there a different option for you to enter and leave your property?
What would happen if the good kindly owner died and his mean nephew, who inherited the estate, decides that he would like compensation or up go the barricades. Am I misreading the situation?
As for the housing that developed, there goes a good reason for zoning. Zoning is a double edged sword. Whenever we want to do something it is a PIA, however if you don't have adequate zoning, what your neighbor builds can diminish your property.
There are 6 homes using a road, through the generosity of the current property owner, none of you have legal easements.
The road is in poor condition.
You have lived there 3 years and don't know your neighbors.
You have sent 2 letters and 4 people out of 6 wish to improve the road.
I think that you are pretty lucky that you got 4 people to agree and you should just do whatever the 4 of you can pool together and do.
I doubt if anyone is going to commit to any legal permenent association considering none of you have any legal "right" to the road. Are you not concerned that you purchased a property with no legal ingress and egress? Is there a different option for you to enter and leave your property?
What would happen if the good kindly owner died and his mean nephew, who inherited the estate, decides that he would like compensation or up go the barricades. Am I misreading the situation?
As for the housing that developed, there goes a good reason for zoning. Zoning is a double edged sword. Whenever we want to do something it is a PIA, however if you don't have adequate zoning, what your neighbor builds can diminish your property.
dknarnd
Gold Member
When you sell a piece of property you can have the deed designate that no mobile or prefab homes are allowed. If the buyer does not like it he don't have to buy your land.
Me and another person bought a farm between our own property, subdivided into four parcels selling two of them and each of us keeping one for ourself. Due to a stream cossing to get to our parcels one of the parcels owns acces to the road and the other parcel has right away. In the deed it states we each share cost of maintenance on the right of way. Now I guess if one wanted blacktop and the other did not maybe it could get a little sticky figuring it out, but then again blacktop isn't necessary so if one wanted it I can't see where the other would have to split the cost. If the bridge washes out that is a different story.
Me and another person bought a farm between our own property, subdivided into four parcels selling two of them and each of us keeping one for ourself. Due to a stream cossing to get to our parcels one of the parcels owns acces to the road and the other parcel has right away. In the deed it states we each share cost of maintenance on the right of way. Now I guess if one wanted blacktop and the other did not maybe it could get a little sticky figuring it out, but then again blacktop isn't necessary so if one wanted it I can't see where the other would have to split the cost. If the bridge washes out that is a different story.
dirtworksequip
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Shawn, I just got to thinking. You get your vehicle stuck. Go back home to take a nap. Someone calls for a tow truck and now your vehicle is no longer in the road. Its at the tow service. Also you may be liable if emergency vehicles can not get in if your vehicle is blocking the roadway. Just something to think about.
andrewj
Platinum Member
your neighbors will never work together. If you can get those five to one day work together, after your hair has all fallen out, someone new will drag a mobile home in and refuse to pay. they will argue next year they thought it was a one time payment. failing to put any agreements in writing will obligate you to whatever standard the other neighbors can dream up in a couple of years, your word against theirs. If you begin to draft something up, there will be a multitude of things you leave out, and they will use it against you. if youdraft a comprehensive document that covers everything, no one will sign it as it will be 50 pages long.
so, You can either improve your road up to your home at your own cost, or just live with it. youwill never accomplish what you have specified here, without footign the bill yourself.
so, You can either improve your road up to your home at your own cost, or just live with it. youwill never accomplish what you have specified here, without footign the bill yourself.
andrewj
Platinum Member
dooleysm said:
what a horrible thing to do to those neighbors who agreed to cooperate with you. at this point I have less sympathy for you and more for those folks that have to put up with your demands and childish and immature threats. What if you cause someone to lose their job b/c you made them late?
different thought: I just re read your posts - at some point you were going to collect money from neighbors and funnel it to a relative? and you beleive you won't be sued over this when the neighbors get picky about how the work was done? wow. bad idea after bad idea after bad idea. (I can't throw stones as my life has been a series of bad ideas! haha. ) But seriously, please re think ALL of this!
The road is owned by the original seller. I believe it is a 60' wide strip and everyone on the road has easements to access the road. The original seller is no older than 35, farms probably 600 acres surrounding all our homes, and has lived in the area his whole life. He inherited all the land from his grandfather and his brothers. Barring catastrophe, he isn't going anywhere. I am going to call him in the near future to verify that he owns the road and that we can do to it what we want. I am sure he doesn't care what happens to the road, as he doesn't use it.
Zoning in our county was passed about 6 months after the last trailer was moved in. The guy we all bought land from is adamant that he won't sell any more land up there, and if he wanted to he'd be forced to follow the new zoning laws, so I don't think it will happen even if he gets hard up for money.
I am not going to purposely get my car stuck at this point, as 2 of the 3 neighbors above me have agreed to help out with the road. If nothing is done someone will get stuck, no ifs, ands, or buts. We have had a stretch of unbelievably warm, sunny weather for this time of year. As soon as the first snow hits, forget it. Being as I have the only tractor up there, they will have to call a tow truck or come talk to me to get them out. Anyone out there is much more likely to lose their job because they got their own car stuck vs. anything that I would ever do. I have made no demands or threats to anyone. My wife has written and dispensed two very nice, pleasant letter explaining the obvious problem and requesting financial assistance as well as a call for advice or comments.
I am not funneling money to a relative. I am going to borrow my FIL's backhoe and pay my SIL's boyfriend, who is a heavy equipment operator by profession, $50 to dig some ditches and smooth the road. I'm going to buy 2 tri-axles of gravel and have them spread on the road. I have asked each person for $100 for this purpose. $400 ($600 if everyone responds) will not pay for a contractor to come in and do this. It'll cost $50 to get anyone out there, plus another $60+/hour of backhoe work (I don't know the going rate for backhoe work in our area, but I'm sure it's at least $60, probably higher). No money left for rock, which is $225/tri-axle. I would absolutely love to hire a company to grade the road, dig ditches, install culverts, and pave the thing, but that isn't happening for $400.
Zoning in our county was passed about 6 months after the last trailer was moved in. The guy we all bought land from is adamant that he won't sell any more land up there, and if he wanted to he'd be forced to follow the new zoning laws, so I don't think it will happen even if he gets hard up for money.
I am not going to purposely get my car stuck at this point, as 2 of the 3 neighbors above me have agreed to help out with the road. If nothing is done someone will get stuck, no ifs, ands, or buts. We have had a stretch of unbelievably warm, sunny weather for this time of year. As soon as the first snow hits, forget it. Being as I have the only tractor up there, they will have to call a tow truck or come talk to me to get them out. Anyone out there is much more likely to lose their job because they got their own car stuck vs. anything that I would ever do. I have made no demands or threats to anyone. My wife has written and dispensed two very nice, pleasant letter explaining the obvious problem and requesting financial assistance as well as a call for advice or comments.
I am not funneling money to a relative. I am going to borrow my FIL's backhoe and pay my SIL's boyfriend, who is a heavy equipment operator by profession, $50 to dig some ditches and smooth the road. I'm going to buy 2 tri-axles of gravel and have them spread on the road. I have asked each person for $100 for this purpose. $400 ($600 if everyone responds) will not pay for a contractor to come in and do this. It'll cost $50 to get anyone out there, plus another $60+/hour of backhoe work (I don't know the going rate for backhoe work in our area, but I'm sure it's at least $60, probably higher). No money left for rock, which is $225/tri-axle. I would absolutely love to hire a company to grade the road, dig ditches, install culverts, and pave the thing, but that isn't happening for $400.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Shawn,
It sure sounds like a reasonable plan for very little money. It's just sad that they are not knocking down your door to get this to happen. I'm truly amazed at what some people will put up with when it's so cheap and easy to have it fixed. Especially when you are more than willing to take on all the headaches of making it happen.
Good luck,
Eddie
It sure sounds like a reasonable plan for very little money. It's just sad that they are not knocking down your door to get this to happen. I'm truly amazed at what some people will put up with when it's so cheap and easy to have it fixed. Especially when you are more than willing to take on all the headaches of making it happen.
Good luck,
Eddie
MossRoad
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Dooleysm,
Be careful what you wish for if you get that road up to county standards and they take it over. Some day they will run a sewer line or water, or other utilities down that road and you will be assessed your fair share of the cost per the road frontage that you have.
My father bought some land and sub-divided it back in the late 50's. He put in a nice gravel road, city water, natural gas lines, electric, etc... about 10 years after that, some of the uppity up neighbors decided they wanted the road paved and city sewers and curbs put in. They got just barely over half the neighbors to sign on and they used a Barrett law to force all of the neighbors to pay their fair share of the project. My father had to come up with thousands of dollars in the late 60s to cover his 300+ feet of road frontage. He had five kids, two of which were in college. It almost bankrupted him. To top it off, the contractor that did the street work did a poor prep job and the road washed out twice in the next five years. The road was closed for a total of about a year and a half. My father had the only access to the neighborhood other than the street. He allowed the good neighbor access to their properties through our yard and threatened the bad neighbors with arrest for tresspassing if they tried to cut through. That forced them to walk in the muddy road to get to their homes. Nobody forgave nobody after that. Half the neighbors on the street ended up hating half the other neighbors on the street until the day they all died or moved away.
Another example:
We own some propery on a sparsley populated secion of state highway. We wanted to build on it. Natural gas was 800 yards down the road. It would cost me about $7000 to get it run to my place. If I paid for it all, after three years, the five property owners clustered around our property could tap into it without having to reimburse me for my costs. I approached each one about pooling our money to get natural gas and split the costs. The all said no thanks. My wife got pregnant, we postponed building. About 5 years later, those 5 neighbors approached me about the gas thing again. I said thanks, but no thanks, as we aren't building now. Guess what? They are mad at me now.
Be careful what you do and consider what will happen later. If it were me, I would just fix the road in front of my place and tell the other neighbors that you can get them a good deal on the road in front of their place if they are interested. I wish you the best of luck.
Be careful what you wish for if you get that road up to county standards and they take it over. Some day they will run a sewer line or water, or other utilities down that road and you will be assessed your fair share of the cost per the road frontage that you have.
My father bought some land and sub-divided it back in the late 50's. He put in a nice gravel road, city water, natural gas lines, electric, etc... about 10 years after that, some of the uppity up neighbors decided they wanted the road paved and city sewers and curbs put in. They got just barely over half the neighbors to sign on and they used a Barrett law to force all of the neighbors to pay their fair share of the project. My father had to come up with thousands of dollars in the late 60s to cover his 300+ feet of road frontage. He had five kids, two of which were in college. It almost bankrupted him. To top it off, the contractor that did the street work did a poor prep job and the road washed out twice in the next five years. The road was closed for a total of about a year and a half. My father had the only access to the neighborhood other than the street. He allowed the good neighbor access to their properties through our yard and threatened the bad neighbors with arrest for tresspassing if they tried to cut through. That forced them to walk in the muddy road to get to their homes. Nobody forgave nobody after that. Half the neighbors on the street ended up hating half the other neighbors on the street until the day they all died or moved away.
Another example:
We own some propery on a sparsley populated secion of state highway. We wanted to build on it. Natural gas was 800 yards down the road. It would cost me about $7000 to get it run to my place. If I paid for it all, after three years, the five property owners clustered around our property could tap into it without having to reimburse me for my costs. I approached each one about pooling our money to get natural gas and split the costs. The all said no thanks. My wife got pregnant, we postponed building. About 5 years later, those 5 neighbors approached me about the gas thing again. I said thanks, but no thanks, as we aren't building now. Guess what? They are mad at me now.
Be careful what you do and consider what will happen later. If it were me, I would just fix the road in front of my place and tell the other neighbors that you can get them a good deal on the road in front of their place if they are interested. I wish you the best of luck.
The road in front of my place is the worst part of the road. The length of my land is equal to 4 of the remaining 5 owners, so 'fixing the road in front of my place' is really the plan.
I would be overjoyed if the county came in and ran sewers. All other utilities (including water) are already in. I would happily pay my share. If it was going to bankrupt anyone it will be my neighbors before me. I'm blessed with a very well paying job, especially for the area. We are in a very rural area. The closest town of any size is 25 minutes away, with a population of about 35,000.
I can't wait to get some pictures so you guys can see this road.
I would be overjoyed if the county came in and ran sewers. All other utilities (including water) are already in. I would happily pay my share. If it was going to bankrupt anyone it will be my neighbors before me. I'm blessed with a very well paying job, especially for the area. We are in a very rural area. The closest town of any size is 25 minutes away, with a population of about 35,000.
I can't wait to get some pictures so you guys can see this road.
Dusty
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If you can put a driveway into your home and bypass the road itself, that is what I would do. That way, they are left to deal with the problem themselves forever. Who plows the road when it snows? With a private driveway to your home, you have eliminated all the problems with the neighbors and they can't even complain to you about how the road is maintained. Common driveways, roads, etc. are nothing but a problem for all concerned.
Prior to my moving to CT, I owned a home that had a private driveway attached to the property on one side. All the surrounding neighbors used that driveway to access the rear of there homes with my permission and the permission of the previous owner of the house. Not one had a easement, or any deeded right on my land. While I was having the house painted, the painters set up ladders in the driveway, which inconvenienced some of those neighbors. They got together and came to the door one evening complaining to me and "warning" me not to let it happen again. It didn't ever happen again. I put two steel posts in the ground at the end of the driveway with a piece of guard rail across it. That ended the problem forever.
Dusty
Prior to my moving to CT, I owned a home that had a private driveway attached to the property on one side. All the surrounding neighbors used that driveway to access the rear of there homes with my permission and the permission of the previous owner of the house. Not one had a easement, or any deeded right on my land. While I was having the house painted, the painters set up ladders in the driveway, which inconvenienced some of those neighbors. They got together and came to the door one evening complaining to me and "warning" me not to let it happen again. It didn't ever happen again. I put two steel posts in the ground at the end of the driveway with a piece of guard rail across it. That ended the problem forever.
Dusty
rox
Veteran Member
Shawn,
i am glad you clarified that you have deeded easment to use the road. I wish you well and think you are doing the best you can under the circumstances. If I were the neighbors I woud be baking you cookies every week to get the deal you are getting for everybody. Not everybody is going to pay and that is just life. Hopefully you can have a little party, heck make it pot luck if you want, on a speific night, the collect the cash night. it willb e wonderful for you to get to know your neighbors.
you never know why not everbody contributed. it could be that others are strapped for cash, so keep an open mind.
i am glad you clarified that you have deeded easment to use the road. I wish you well and think you are doing the best you can under the circumstances. If I were the neighbors I woud be baking you cookies every week to get the deal you are getting for everybody. Not everybody is going to pay and that is just life. Hopefully you can have a little party, heck make it pot luck if you want, on a speific night, the collect the cash night. it willb e wonderful for you to get to know your neighbors.
you never know why not everbody contributed. it could be that others are strapped for cash, so keep an open mind.
This road is the only access to my house. There are 2, 4 acre lots that separate my 45 acres from the state highway. Behind my acreage is the previous owners farmland and beyond that the river.
We knew this would be a problem when we bought the land, but it's a great piece of land besides this and we got a terrific price on it. We had the chance to buy one of the lots below us, but we were in the midst of building (we built our house ourselves in the evenings after work) and were strapped for cash, and weren't able to. We made an offer of what we could afford and he accepted the current owner's offer. A couple months later they pulled a trailer in. A couple months after that I talked to the original owner and he already regretted not selling to us.
It does blow my mind that some of the neighbors haven't responded to us. If I had received a similar letter in the mail from another neighbor I would have thought I won the lottery!
I guess the consensous though is to not bother trying to get something on paper?
We knew this would be a problem when we bought the land, but it's a great piece of land besides this and we got a terrific price on it. We had the chance to buy one of the lots below us, but we were in the midst of building (we built our house ourselves in the evenings after work) and were strapped for cash, and weren't able to. We made an offer of what we could afford and he accepted the current owner's offer. A couple months later they pulled a trailer in. A couple months after that I talked to the original owner and he already regretted not selling to us.
It does blow my mind that some of the neighbors haven't responded to us. If I had received a similar letter in the mail from another neighbor I would have thought I won the lottery!
I guess the consensous though is to not bother trying to get something on paper?
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
The problem wiht putting anything down on paper is enforcing it. If they agree to pay an amount every year and then do not do so, what are you going to do? Home owner associations put liens on homes, but in my experience, those liens are usually dismissed when the homeowner sells there home.
Are the ones willing to pay between you and the paved road? Which ones are not willing to pay and how will it affect them. I agree it sucks to give them a free ride, but maybe they are in the area that won't get any improvement and it will just get worse?
Eddie
Are the ones willing to pay between you and the paved road? Which ones are not willing to pay and how will it affect them. I agree it sucks to give them a free ride, but maybe they are in the area that won't get any improvement and it will just get worse?
Eddie
The two that haven't responded, and honestly, they may be willing to pay if I go and knock on their doors, are at the beginning and end of the road, one each. The end of the road is such that the last 3 homes (all three past me) all enter the road right next to eachother. The guy at the beginning that has yet to respond is the one that gets all the water and rock runoff. It will definitely get worse, or at least no better, for the guy at the front of the road. The guy at the end, it will only improve for him.
MarkV
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My story is like the others who became frustrated with being on a private road. Never did a request for gravel money get more than 25% of those living on the road to chip in and 0% of those who owned land that has not been built on. I spent hours and hours trying to grade and keep the road passable. I think twice in 5 years someone said thank you. No more private roads for me!
Doolysm, I would at least try and talk to the owner of the 1st property on the road before you did too much grading work. It sounds like he has a run off problem and you don’t want him to come back and say it was your fault because of work you did on the road. People can be funny if they feel like they can get something for nothing.
MarkV
Doolysm, I would at least try and talk to the owner of the 1st property on the road before you did too much grading work. It sounds like he has a run off problem and you don’t want him to come back and say it was your fault because of work you did on the road. People can be funny if they feel like they can get something for nothing.
MarkV
shane
Gold Member
I hate to say it but I think you are sunk. People living in trailers (inexpensive homes) usually don't have a lot of extra cash to do things such as road repairs. You probably should just try to keep the road passable to your drive and pretend that the other homes are not there. In the end you will be much happier.
In the event that you or anyone else is going to purchase property make sure you have drawn up restrictions against problems such as this. People thought I was crazy for wanting restrictions on my property and the surrounding way out where I am. But, share a few horror strories with them and they say, "You know, them restrictions aren't so bad after all".
In the event that you or anyone else is going to purchase property make sure you have drawn up restrictions against problems such as this. People thought I was crazy for wanting restrictions on my property and the surrounding way out where I am. But, share a few horror strories with them and they say, "You know, them restrictions aren't so bad after all".
KiotiAcres
New member
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I live on a similar road... my suggestion, and the advice I give myself is:
Behave as if you live on your own road, with nobody else on it. You've stated that you have a well paying job, and like where you live. Fix the road to you driveway, show the other neighbors how good neighbors treat each other, and see if they respond the next time you seek funds.
You are obviously the one most sensitive to the condition of the road, if you make it right, you'll feel better, and your neighbors may respond to your generosity... if not, at least you'll enjoy driving down "your" road.
Tom
Behave as if you live on your own road, with nobody else on it. You've stated that you have a well paying job, and like where you live. Fix the road to you driveway, show the other neighbors how good neighbors treat each other, and see if they respond the next time you seek funds.
You are obviously the one most sensitive to the condition of the road, if you make it right, you'll feel better, and your neighbors may respond to your generosity... if not, at least you'll enjoy driving down "your" road.
Tom
