Sharing a Pond Questions

Golfgar4 · Nov 11, 2004

Bob,

I certainly don't understand all of the legal ramifications of your idea as well as you seem to.

I'm just wondering if there is a specific reason why the pond has to be where you have located? Can you not relocate it somewhere else so that it is entirely on your property (see my attachment with "new" green location) and avoid having all of this agreement business?

Bob_Skurka · Nov 11, 2004

What is not visible in the photo is the elevation changes. The house is sitting almost 40' above the swimming pool, the pool is about 6' above the square you placed on the photo. The woods to the right of the circle cover a ridge but the property line directly to the right of the circle is probably about 30' above the proposed pond area. The square you placed on the photo is probably 2 or 3 feet above my circle. The pond, if located where I placed the circle, would naturally fill itself with runoff water from almost all sides, if you look at the photo you can see a "path" that runs through the circle area, that is a runoff path from fast moving water. Consequently placing the pond where the circle is really is putting it about where nature puts a temporary pond after a heavy rain storm.

MossRoad · Nov 11, 2004

Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob....

Buy the land, then put the pond in. That is the only way to avoid problems. You own it and nobody else. Just my opinion. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

DocHeb · Nov 11, 2004

I wouldn't consider doing this without a real estate attorney's input.

Golfgar4 · Nov 11, 2004

Gotcha!

Actually I figured that you'd have a very logical explanation of why you wanted it there.

I just thought that your picture needed a bit more color! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Nov 11, 2004

Also, with all that runoff, you'll need to put some hay bails around the pond, which will plug your drain after a large rain, the pond will overflow and wash out the pond into the neighboring field and destroy the bean crop with silt... just kidding, but you've read it right here in this post. Weird things happen. Avoid them at all costs. Again, I say do not share land with anyone... it will bring you heartache later on. If not you, then whoever inherits ownership of your land in the future will get the joys of wading through the legal documents regarding the leases. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Bob_Skurka · Nov 11, 2004

Buy the land, then put the pond in. 

I can't buy the land!!! I tried. It is deeded to the lot owners in the neighborhood, that is why the lease is in place for the farmer. The area behind my house is the largest field area. I've actually toyed with the idea of taking over the entire field under a 20 year lease and may still do that. But at very least, I would consider leasing just the area that abuts my property line.

Henro · Nov 11, 2004

IL_haz,

Where I grew up houses were about 20 feet apart...Funny thing was the neighbors were like family, at least on each side for a few houses.

Do you like that guy? If so, what does it matter if he fishes close to the house. I mean himself, personally. Not the whole neighborhood and everyone he might invite.

Good neighbors are worth their weight in gold. Foster the relationship, that would be my advice. I don't mean giving anything away. Just saying that you appreciate having a good neighbor, and if he wants to fish by himself on the pond, well he is welcome to do it.

What does it cost you? A hello if you see him? You might tell him you would appreciate him staying away from you house most of the time, but sometimes is OK.

But it gets back to whether you like the guy or not.

Be his friend and he may be yours too. Make sure you both have an understanding that you are permitting him to fish on you turf...that you value him as a good neighbor...

Again...this is if you like the guy.

Always best to have good neighbors than the alternative...

Funny thing is, where we live now houses are spaced farther than 20' apart. When we were looking for a house, we found this place with an old house on it. I asked the neighbor about the place and he said, among other things, "people around here will help you if you are in need, but we don't believe in visiting..."

For over twenty years, although his house is probably only 200 feet away, we met once in the spring before things got green and once in the fall...this summer a big willow of mine fell on his property. I told him I would take care of it. He and his brother came and worked with me for a long day, cutting it up and I carried it away with my tractor. The following day he helped me rake up some leaves and so on...

His last words were..."you're a good neighbor..."

Guess I'll talk to him again in the spring...

Foster the relationship with your neighbor. Good nieghbors are really worth their weight in gold. Too many have neighbors that they wish they cold be rid of, but they can't.

All depends on whether you like the guy or not though, I suppose...

Frodo · Nov 12, 2004

Henro - I think more than half the problem is how we started out when we first met. He came over and said, "I'm your new neighbor." I started to introduce my son and myself and before I finished getting our names out, I was told, "This is the dirtiest pond I've ever seem" and he proceeded to tell me how he was going to fix it and what I needed to do in relation to the pond. That he'd been the head of the lake in his subdivision so he was an authority. My input was ignored (and has been ignored). Didn't even get his name at that point.

I believe that a "good" neighbor would have asked if he could fish on my side of the pond, not just do it. His grandkids were out on my side the pond, standing in the boat with no life preservers on. I don't want the liability (he said he would be liable, but I'm not sure of the legalities and if something ever did happen, in the "heat of the moment" they (or a lawyer) might see it as my problem). He also extends his fishing rights to his friends I don't know and that's who really parked the boat behind my house to fish.

I also don't fish (collective gasp from the crowd). My kids do, which is why I bought the property (along with the house we liked, the asthetic beauty of the lake, and the privacy of the lot). I was always taught that you don't go on someone's property without permission. In my limited sight, fishing behind my house is the same as pulling up a lawn chair just out my back door, opening up a beer, and not offering me one. It's just not polite whether you have the "right" or not, whether you walk or row. I've waited two years for him to just ask (which I have asked him to please do).

You give a lot of good advise and I'm sure we'd get along fine if the ground wasn't so wet between us.

MossRoad · Nov 12, 2004

From a fisherman's point of view, if I can get my boat on a piece of water, I can go anywhere on that water I please. I just can't get out of it and step on someone else's property. That's the rub... Here in Indiana, that's accepted as normal. Don't know about your state.

At all lakes around here and in Michigan, you expect to see people on boats near your yard, fishing under your pier and docked boats, etc... It's normal. Unless you can legally prove that he has no right to be there, you're going to have to live with it even if you don't like it.

It is not a navigable body of water. 

 It is well-established in Illinois that each owner of the bed of a private non-navigable lake has the right to the reasonable use and enjoyment of the surface water of the entire lake. Beacham v. Lake Zurich Property Owners ****'n, 123 Ill. 2d 227, 526 N.E.2d 154 (1988). 

In Nottolini v. LaSalle Bank the driving factor was this...
Specifically, defendants argue that the trial court's awarding plaintiffs surface water rights in the quarry deprives them of their right to exclusively use and manage the quarry. 

It seems like you want to exclusively use and manage your pond. The two of you share a dam that holds back the water in the pond. My guess is you're going to have trouble in court since he owns part of the dam, too. Maybe if his land just bordered the lake, you might have a case for him to stay on his side of the Les Nesman line, but since he owns part of the dam, he can use any part of the surface of the lake. Just my opinion of course, but I think you will lose in court.