Shuttle vs Manual vs Hydro

[Doty]

Still in the hunt for my next tractor. I'm now looking at the Jinma vs Massey in the 25 to 30 hp range. I've spent a lot of time looking at both and the Massey has an advantage in a couple areas: local service and the "shuttle shift" transmission, although I can't exactly find out what that is. Any thoughts?

 

[DMF]

Still in the hunt for my next tractor. I'm now looking at the Jinma vs Massey in the 25 to 30 hp range. I've spent a lot of time looking at both and the Massey has an advantage in a couple areas: local service and the "shuttle shift" transmission, although I can't exactly find out what that is. Any thoughts?

Shuttle means you stay in any gear you're currently in but you can shift another lever to go forward or backward...

 

[dex3361]

Welcome to TBN. Basicly a shuttle shift is a standard transmission that has a forward reverse lever and you can clutch in and change directions in any gear. This is the standard trans. to have. Though I Prefer HST for my type of work (loader,rotary cutting and blade scraper work on hilly terrain).

 

[tractorski]

The Power shuttle that massey has does not require that the clutch pedal be pushed in to change direction. It makes loader work easy. That said, it is also the transmission setup that has the least amount of parasitic drag on the tractor.

 

[mike123]

The Power shuttle that massey has does not require that the clutch pedal be pushed in to change direction. It makes loader work easy. That said, it is also the transmission setup that has the least amount of parasitic drag on the tractor.

Sorry, what do you mean by parasitic drag?
I know nothing about tractors but I test drove a 5400 series the other day for my snow removal operation. I currently have a toolcat which I use for a ton of condo units with small drives. I wanted to speed up production but I didn't like how I had to be on and off the brake so much.
I am used to not having to ever touch the brake with the toolcat, when I take my foot of the pedal, the TC comes to a pretty fast stop without braking. On the 5400 series, the tractor continues to roll freely. When operating in tight areas like going in and out of drives, am I suppose to just ride the brake up to the door and then auto reverse when I have the blade down?

 

[agcodealer]

I'll try to explain a little better.

Standard Gear: Transmission has fixed gears and the tractor must come to a complete stop to shift to any gear.

Synchronized Transmissions: Allows for shifting on the move with the use of a clutch pedal. The transmission normally has some type of sychronizer that aligns the slines between the gear you are leaving and the gear you are going too.

Manual Synchro Shuttle Trans: Is similar to the above transmission with a lever to chnage direction forward and reverse. Minimum of two levers one to select the speed(gear) and one to shuttle. YOu push the clutch to shift forward and reverse and push the clutch to change speeds.

PowerShuttle: Instead of the clutch this a a hydraulic system that allows forward and reverse shuttling without the need to clutch. allows for rapid direction change. Speeds are normally still Synchronized and require clutching to change speeds or on some models and version the shuttle lever in neutral or like the MF 3 Function Shuttle on large tractors has a declutch feature by just lifting the lever and speed changes can be made.

Hydrostat: is infinite speeds by pushing pedals Forward or Reverse harder you push faster it goes. Hydrostats are great in smaller tractors but they require alot of horsepower to operate.

You might also check out Massey Ferguson : Tractor Advisor : Home look in the section Tractors 101 they have some great basic knowledge of tractors too.

 

[22cal]

Before you buy a Massey hydro check the hydro filter prices. Just bought a MF 1635 hydro and have 35 hrs on it. The hydro filters(2) need to be changed at the first 50 hrs and cost $180 each. Kind of a big rip off. Am trying to get Agco to do something but they aren't very responsive. Have a ggod dealer and he can't get results either. Hydro filter for my Gleaner L3 combine was only $50 and it is 158 hp. kind of expensive maintenance!

 

[JerryG]

Before you buy a Massey hydro check the hydro filter prices. Just bought a MF 1635 hydro and have 35 hrs on it. The hydro filters(2) need to be changed at the first 50 hrs and cost $180 each. Kind of a big rip off. Am trying to get Agco to do something but they aren't very responsive. Have a ggod dealer and he can't get results either. Hydro filter for my Gleaner L3 combine was only $50 and it is 158 hp. kind of expensive maintenance!

You need to have your dealer check his prices again. Tell him that you just need the filters, not including the filter head. I just looked up 1 of your filters and it was $46.90 from Jacks Small Engines.

 

[MFRED]

Yeah, someone added an extra number on you. They should be around 50 bucks.

 

[22cal]

Thanks for the filter info. Sounds a lot more reasonable now.
Have a Bush hog 72" finish mower that I use with it. Works very nice. Am thinking of getting a Woods tsg50 stump grinder for it also. Anyone have any experience with these?
thanks

 

[Kioti4me]

Have you looked at Kioti tractors? They're great machines. Check them out you get a lot of tractor and warranty for your hard earned money!

KIOTI - run ahead of the pack!

Still in the hunt for my next tractor. I'm now looking at the Jinma vs Massey in the 25 to 30 hp range. I've spent a lot of time looking at both and the Massey has an advantage in a couple areas: local service and the "shuttle shift" transmission, although I can't exactly find out what that is. Any thoughts?

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sorry, what do you mean by parasitic drag?
I know nothing about tractors but I test drove a 5400 series the other day for my snow removal operation. I currently have a toolcat which I use for a ton of condo units with small drives. I wanted to speed up production but I didn't like how I had to be on and off the brake so much.
I am used to not having to ever touch the brake with the toolcat, when I take my foot of the pedal, the TC comes to a pretty fast stop without braking. On the 5400 series, the tractor continues to roll freely. When operating in tight areas like going in and out of drives, am I suppose to just ride the brake up to the door and then auto reverse when I have the blade down?

You want HST for that work. Most convenient, but high parasitic drag. Typically that drag is coming from hyd pump and hyd motor losses and fluid viscosity causing pumping losses. It all adds up to about 2X the losses seen in a manual/gear type tranmission.
larry

 

[whistlepig]

Once you go hydro you won't go back. Parasitic drag is the same stuff they talked about when cars and trucks went from standard transmissions to automatic transmissions. Automatic transmissions have the same parasitic drag. So I have pushed clutches and shifted gears on trucks 25 for years to avoid parasitic drag. I have worn my knee out pushing tractor clutches to avoid parasitic drag. I don't get a darn about parasitic drag any more. I have decided to give myself a long deserved break by pushing the go pedal with my little toe on the hydro.

 

[slowzuki]

For working tight around buildings and cars a hydro is far more precise. I have both. I missed the gear tranny for field work farming.

With the 5400 series, you don't ride the brake but you need to set the reversor aggressiveness with the knob and practice the timing. You approach, let off the pedal, pull the reverser, then get back on the pedal once it changes direction.

You won't find a tractor the size of the 5400 series nowadays with a hydro.

 

[3dayfunk]

All the tractors I've ever owned have been standard transmission. Last spring I began shopping for a new tractor. At first, I would only look at standard trans. Guess I figured why pay extra dollars when the standard was fine with me. Then a friend convinced me to give the hydro a try. I bought a Massey hydro and let me tell ya, I'm never going back to standard. What a sweet little set up. I don't care about parasitic whatever...all I can tell you is life on a tractor is a wonderful thing with those two little side by side pedals.

3day

 

[Semipro]

It seems to me that the downside of hydrostatic is power loss, increased maintenance in the way of fluid/filter changes, and increased heat generation.

The upside of hydro is no clutch to use or replace, no grinding gears, faster more intuitive operation, and easier position holding on hills.

That said, I don't have a lot of experience with hydros other than on Bobcats or backhoes. I hope to have that experience on a tractor soon.

 

[WilliamBos]

There is a link to THIS site in the adviser.

Massey Ferguson : Tractor Advisor : Reviews

They do know about us!!!!

I'll try to explain a little better.

Standard Gear: Transmission has fixed gears and the tractor must come to a complete stop to shift to any gear.

Synchronized Transmissions: Allows for shifting on the move with the use of a clutch pedal. The transmission normally has some type of sychronizer that aligns the slines between the gear you are leaving and the gear you are going too.

Manual Synchro Shuttle Trans: Is similar to the above transmission with a lever to chnage direction forward and reverse. Minimum of two levers one to select the speed(gear) and one to shuttle. YOu push the clutch to shift forward and reverse and push the clutch to change speeds.

PowerShuttle: Instead of the clutch this a a hydraulic system that allows forward and reverse shuttling without the need to clutch. allows for rapid direction change. Speeds are normally still Synchronized and require clutching to change speeds or on some models and version the shuttle lever in neutral or like the MF 3 Function Shuttle on large tractors has a declutch feature by just lifting the lever and speed changes can be made.

Hydrostat: is infinite speeds by pushing pedals Forward or Reverse harder you push faster it goes. Hydrostats are great in smaller tractors but they require alot of horsepower to operate.

You might also check out Massey Ferguson : Tractor Advisor : Home look in the section Tractors 101 they have some great basic knowledge of tractors too.

 

[mburke121]

I'm a novice, but my understanding is that Hydro transmissions will wear quickly when used for heavy drafting chores - such as plowing and box grading. Is that the case? I'm shopping for a newer tractor to replace my '94 Ford, and would love to go with hydro, if I knew it would meet my needs.

 

[brin]

I'm a novice, but my understanding is that Hydro transmissions will wear quickly when used for heavy drafting chores - such as plowing and box grading. Is that the case? I'm shopping for a newer tractor to replace my '94 Ford, and would love to go with hydro, if I knew it would meet my needs.

I guess I am too old to change..I am from the old school..all of this new stuff is fine except when it breaks and then it costs thousands to fix. I will stay with the standard transmission...Geez, shifting is not that big a deal and less to go wrong. Same thing goes with the new cars and trucks..when we bought our new cars we skipped all the trip computers we could and power seats as well....just a big repair bill waiting to happen...Just a view from an old guy.

 

[bp fick]

Hydro is outstanding for control in tight quarters. Simply more efficient and controlled. Awesome. Yes, it takes some power to operate, no doubt. Worth it? For close work and ease of use? No comparison. I have worked both a manual gear and hydro.

Gear tractors are cheaper to buy. Hydro has it's fluids and filters, it's all true.
But cracking open a tractor to fix a broken gear, a synchronizer, or replace a worn clutch is cheap, where? Just sayin.