Sizing a Backhoe Thumb Cylinder

[Dougster]

I agree with you. It also means Bradco's hyd thumb and bucket can function exactly like a clamshell bucket. That is all........not for or against it.
hugs, Brandi

Yeah, it's kind of an "interesting but moot" point. It is what it is. One could imagine situations where one or the other configuration might have benefits over the other, but there is little sense in messing with the excellent, powerful Bradco factory design.

Dougster

 

[dfkrug]

.
.
.

....there is little sense in messing with the excellent, powerful Bradco factory design.

...unless you wanted to save a BUNCH of money. 600 clams for just
the hyd cyl, indeed!

 

[Dougster]

...unless you wanted to save a BUNCH of money. 600 clams for just the hyd cyl, indeed!

I was referring only to the design, geometry and strength of the Bradco thumb (which is really quite good)... definitely not to the cost of the various add-on components to go hydraulic when obtained from Bradco.

Dougster

 

[bindian]

Here is what ABC Groff has for prices. Bare in mind each pin has two washers and snap rings. I think there is a typo on the $1,20.00. I think it should read $1200.00. All the parts below total $524.18 for a cylinder installation. So I guess the $573.82 my Mahindra dealer quoted me is for all the same parts.
hugs, Brandi
Please see prices list below. All parts would be available in 1 week

Thanks,
Ike

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Hyd thumb kit & parts

> Please give price and availability for these items listed below for
> Bradco's hydraulic thumb for their 509 & 511 Backhoes
> Thanks, Brandi
>
> # 15780 Hydraulic Installation Kit $1,20.00
> # 16955 Cylinder Assembly $431.00
> # 16702 Pin 1.25" x 5.13" $37.33
> # 57693 Washer $1.33
> # 1652 Snap Ring $2.27
> # 16703 Pin 1.25" x 3.44" $41.45
>
ABC Groff Inc
110 S Railroad Ave
New Holland, PA 17557
Tel: 800-346-8319
Fax: 717-354-5159
website: abcgroff.com

 

[Dougster]

> # 16955 Cylinder Assembly $431.00
> # 16702 Pin 1.25" x 5.13" $37.33
> # 57693 Washer $1.33
> # 1652 Snap Ring $2.27
> # 16703 Pin 1.25" x 3.44" $41.45

Good God, those pins are expensive!!! What's up with that??? Are they gold plated???

Cylinder itself is not half bad compared to aftermarket. I could go for that just to keep the delivery time under control.

Did they mention whether these are Bradco list prices vs. discounted???

Dougster

 

[bindian]

Here is what ABC Groff has for prices. Bare in mind each pin has two washers and snap rings. I think there is a typo on the $1,20.00. I think it should read $1200.00. All the parts below total $524.18 for a cylinder installation. So I guess the $573.82 my Mahindra dealer quoted me is for all the same parts.
hugs, Brandi
Please see prices list below. All parts would be available in 1 week

Thanks,
Ike

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Hyd thumb kit & parts

> Please give price and availability for these items listed below for
> Bradco's hydraulic thumb for their 509 & 511 Backhoes
> Thanks, Brandi
>
> # 15780 Hydraulic Installation Kit $1,20.00
> # 16955 Cylinder Assembly $431.00
> # 16702 Pin 1.25" x 5.13" $37.33
> # 57693 Washer $1.33
> # 1652 Snap Ring $2.27
> # 16703 Pin 1.25" x 3.44" $41.45
>
ABC Groff Inc
110 S Railroad Ave
New Holland, PA 17557
Tel: 800-346-8319
Fax: 717-354-5159
website: abcgroff.com

Correction on price of Bradco hyd kit for 509 & 511 thumb. Ike with ABC Groff just emailed me with a price correction of $1020.00 for kit #15780.
It getting better all the time. I can live with these prices.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

It getting better all the time. I can live with these prices.
hugs, Brandi

Easy for you to say! Just wait until you suddenly find yourself (semi-) retired!

Dirt Poor Dougster

 

[bindian]

Easy for you to say! Just wait until you suddenly find yourself (semi-) retired!

Dirt Poor Dougster

Dougster,
Check out the Prince Wizard cylinders again. It would seem the cylinder ends need to be welded on, thus raising their cost. The Bradco cylinder from ABC Groff is not that much more after paying a welder to do prescision welding. Yes, they want a lot for the pins. I can get 1.25 bolts from my local mill supply for around $9 each and drill a hole for a cotter pin through the nut and bolt.
The kit cost is in my reach when (?) my son pays me back for loaning cash for down payment on his used Mustang.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

Dougster, Check out the Prince Wizard cylinders again. It would seem the cylinder ends need to be welded on, thus raising their cost. The Bradco cylinder from ABC Groff is not that much more after paying a welder to do prescision welding. Yes, they want a lot for the pins. I can get 1.25 bolts from my local mill supply for around $9 each and drill a hole for a cotter pin through the nut and bolt. The kit cost is in my reach when (?) my son pays me back for loaning cash for down payment on his used Mustang.
hugs, Brandi

Hi Brandi - I'm not following exactly what you're saying about the "Wizards." Hope I didn't mislead you, but my understanding is that the Prince Wizards come 100% assembled and ready to use straight from the factory with whatever ends and other options you choose. That's probably what makes them take so dang long to order!

Is my understanding incorrect?

Dougster

 

[bindian]

Hi Brandi - I'm not following exactly what you're saying about the "Wizards." Hope I didn't mislead you, but my understanding is that the Prince Wizards come 100% assembled and ready to use straight from the factory with whatever ends and other options you choose. That's probably what makes them take so dang long to order!

Is my understanding incorrect?

Dougster

Dougster,
Read the PDF spec sheet on Wizard cylinders on the Prince website, click on ...Catalog Pages. See page 2 in the middle of the page in a note that reads...............Important: Extend rod before welding on end fittings. Seal Damage will occur from excessive heat.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

See page 2 in the middle of the page in a note that reads...............Important: Extend rod before welding on end fittings. Seal Damage will occur from excessive heat.
hugs, Brandi

I believe (hope? pray?) that is a note just copied over from an engineering drawing. Look at the price structure and model numbers scheme. I don't think they just throw those end fittings into the box for the end user to attach... not at that price... and not with an 8 to 10 week lead time. Couldn't get hold of the local distributor to confirm this, but I'll try again tomorrow.

In the meantime, that genuine Bradco cylinder cost is looking more and more attractive in the context of total installed cost. Sure wish I knew the pressure rating and/or cylinder thickness of that beast. I'm thinking that the Bradco cylinder may be more beefy and better suited to installation in a location that can see some pretty rough action at times.

Dougster

 

[bindian]

I believe (hope? pray?) that is a note just copied over from an engineering drawing. Look at the price structure and model numbers scheme. I don't think they just throw those end fittings into the box for the end user to attach... not at that price... and not with an 8 to 10 week lead time. Couldn't get hold of the local distributor to confirm this, but I'll try again tomorrow.

In the meantime, that genuine Bradco cylinder cost is looking more and more attractive in the context of total installed cost. Sure wish I knew the pressure rating and/or cylinder thickness of that beast. I'm thinking that the Bradco cylinder may be more beefy and better suited to installation in a location that can see some pretty rough action at times.

Dougster

Yes, with the complete part number break down it includes what rod ends are used. It very well could be a mfg. note on the drawing.
hugs, Brandi

 

[dfkrug]

I miss the days when Prince sold directly via their website or by
phone. I bought mostly valves, not cyls. Now you have to go
to a distributor and hyd distributors (local and out of area) have
been unresponsive, in my experience. So now I buy off Ebay and
from Surplus Center, or AgriSupply. Customizing the cyls I buy
has been fairly easy.

 

[Dougster]

I miss the days when Prince sold directly via their website or by phone. I bought mostly valves, not cyls. Now you have to go to a distributor and hyd distributors (local and out of area) have been unresponsive, in my experience. So now I buy off Ebay and from Surplus Center, or AgriSupply. Customizing the cyls I buy has been fairly easy.

Yeah, I am having a tough time getting local hydraulic parts dealers to take on my plight. I did find a dealer up in New Hampshire that would order the Prince Wizard to my exact specs for $211 plus shipping... but the killer is still that 8-week delivery time and the guy is less than thrilled about the nuisance of putting in my mini-order. I found some cylinders that could be modified for cheap bucks (to buy, not modify) on eBay... but none in my preferred 2.75" diameter. Meant to talk to a machine shop guy a couple towns over about doing the mods to make it fit, but haven't been able to get over there this week or last.

Meanwhile, it's looking more and more like buying the Bradco hydraulic cylinder kit (Keyword: "kit"... Part No. 16609) makes the most sense since I can get a small discount off the ~$500.00 list price and I'm being assured by the local dealers that the "kit" price includes those super-costly (supposedly super-hardened) 1-1/4" pins.

Dougster

 

[bindian]

Yeah, I am having a tough time getting local hydraulic parts dealers to take on my plight. I did find a dealer up in New Hampshire that would order the Prince Wizard to my exact specs for $211 plus shipping... but the killer is still that 8-week delivery time and the guy is less than thrilled about the nuisance of putting in my mini-order. I found some cylinders that could be modified for cheap bucks (to buy, not modify) on eBay... but none in my preferred 2.75" diameter. Meant to talk to a machine shop guy a couple towns over about doing the mods to make it fit, but haven't been able to get over there this week or last.

Meanwhile, it's looking more and more like buying the Bradco hydraulic cylinder kit (Keyword: "kit"... Part No. 16609) makes the most sense since I can get a small discount off the ~$500.00 list price and I'm being assured by the local dealers that the "kit" price includes those super-costly (supposedly super-hardened) 1-1/4" pins.

Dougster

Yes, finding that right cylinder is elusive. Rakesales.com met the specs for the cylinder if I wanted a 3 inch bore and 1 inch pin holes for a 7 day delivery and $295 cost plus shipping. ABC Groff quote me a price for kit #16609 for $494.00 plus shipping. Where are you pricing the "kit"?
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

Yes, finding that right cylinder is elusive. Rakesales.com met the specs for the cylinder if I wanted a 3 inch bore and 1 inch pin holes for a 7 day delivery and $295 cost plus shipping. ABC Groff quote me a price for kit #16609 for $494.00 plus shipping. Where are you pricing the "kit"?
hugs, Brandi

Best price on the kit was from Woodbury Tractor in Connecticut... but when I say "small discount"... I'm talking just enough to cover CT sales tax and shipping. It's gonna end up ~$500 give or take... but at least I'll get those 1-1/4" gold-plated pins!

And yes, the Prince Wizard 2-3/4" for $211.00 is the same as your alternative with those 1" pins. Same with the 3" and 2-1/2" eBay bargain cylinders: 1" pins. Not sure I trust a 1" pin with bushings given that Bradco seems to feel they need those 1-1/4" super-ultra-hardened pins... but that's a whole 'nother story.

Dougster