Skidding Tongs for pulling lumber - What else do I need?

[Black Acreage]

Hi guys,

First time poster, still 'green' with tractors - running a 1989 John Deere 2155. Headed into the woods to fell trees for firewood and hope to put it to work. I'm looking at hitching up some 32" Timber Tuff skid tongs (Timber Tuff Tools | Tough Tools for the Forest Industry! | 32" Swivel Grab Skidding Tongs with Swivel Teeth) to get the trees out the woods before bucking.

Sorry if this question has an obvious answer, but what else do I *need*? Every YouTube vid has guys using a boom pole or jerry-rigged hitch of some kind or another. Do I need that? Can I not just run a chain or tow strap from the tongs to the back/hole hitch of the tractor and pull?

Thanks guys.

 

[kenmbz]

Welcome to TBN.
It helps to lift the tree so the butt doesn't plow into the ground.

 

[CobyRupert]

Not only does lifting one end off the ground make it slide easier, not dig as deep ruts, or catch on stones and roots, it’s keeps dirt off the bark and your chainsaw doesn’t dull as fast.
When dragging and you catch the butt on a root, what’s the plan to get it up and over?
Often in the woods it’s hard to back up to the end of the log. Cables are handy. A snatch block (pulley) for rerouting cable when you can’t get a straight line pull is handy too.
Of course if that cable is part of a 3 point hitch logging winch, that’s really handy! (My preferred method)
Give us enough time and we’ll try to talk you into buying a log skidder or tree harvester!

 

[CobyRupert]

A couple unsolicited tips:
Don’t try to push tree over with a bucket. That’s too close when things go wrong.
Pull any standing or hung up tree from a safe* distance. (*: farther than the tree is tall)
If you hang up a tree and try to pull the trunk so that tree falls down, remember that weight of tree can plant trunk solidly, so you end up pulling the top over towards yourself instead. This is bad if you’re pulling with a short chain.
Things can and will go wrong. You may imagine how they might go wrong, but they will also go wrong in ways you can’t imagine.
Be safe.

 

[Black Acreage]

Welcome to TBN.
It helps to lift the tree so the butt doesn't plow into the ground.

Thanks Ken!

The problem is the trees are 30' from the tractor, in the forest, and down a hill. So even if I had a boom the nose of the tree will be in the dirt anyway, at least until the tree clears the forest line (at which point I could back the tractor right up to it).

At this point my best idea is to hitch two tow straps together, one end shackled to the tractor and the other shackled to the tongs.

Not only does lifting one end off the ground make it slide easier, not dig as deep ruts, or catch on stones and roots, it’s keeps dirt off the bark and your chainsaw doesn’t dull as fast.
When dragging and you catch the butt on a root, what’s the plan to get it up and over?
Often in the woods it’s hard to back up to the end of the log. Cables are handy. A snatch block (pulley) for rerouting cable when you can’t get a straight line pull is handy too.
Of course if that cable is part of a 3 point hitch logging winch, that’s really handy! (My preferred method)
Give us enough time and we’ll try to talk you into buying a log skidder or tree harvester!

Thanks Coby that's interesting. I just googled all those toys and now I have log skidder envy. In the meantime I need a workable solution that doesn't break the bank - even the splitter is rented this year! Is what I'm describing 'good enough'? Or do I need some bare minimum 3pt hitch of some sort, rather than just shackling the strap to the single hole hitch? I just don't want to hear after the fact that I risked compromising the structural integrity of the tractor in some way.

 

[Black Acreage]

A couple unsolicited tips:
Don’t try to push tree over with a bucket. That’s too close when things go wrong.
Pull any standing or hung up tree from a safe* distance. (*: farther than the tree is tall)
If you hang up a tree and try to pull the trunk so that tree falls down, remember that weight of tree can plant trunk solidly, so you end up pulling the top over towards yourself instead. This is bad if you’re pulling with a short chain.
Things can and will go wrong. You may imagine how they might go wrong, but they will also go wrong in ways you can’t imagine.
Be safe.

Well received. I'll be felling with a chainsaw (and a friend!), but yes I'm doing my research and getting the very clear message about the hazards and the safety attitude required.

 

[Cycledude]

Yes a drawbar installed in the three point hitch arms would be very helpful. The tongs can be very handy but if working alone they are sometimes extra trouble like if they come unhooked and you have a long walk to hook them up again.
you might want to get a choker chain similar to this, I have a few and they don’t come unhooked by themselves very easily

Timber Tuff Tools | Tough Tools for the Forest Industry! | Dragging Chains & Tools

 

[Black Acreage]

Yes a drawbar installed in the three point hitch arms would be very helpful. The tongs can be very handy but if working alone they are sometimes extra trouble like if they come unhooked and you have a long walk to hook them up again.
you might want to get a choker chain similar to this, I have a few and they don’t come unhooked by themselves very easily

Timber Tuff Tools | Tough Tools for the Forest Industry! | Dragging Chains & Tools

Didn't even think of that - thank you! The first and only option I came across thus far were the tongs - I figured that was the undisputed way to go.

Besides the aggravation of having to get a choker chain/cable underneath a log (which is remedied by a timberjack), do the tongs offer any advantage over a choker? Seems a choke system is simpler, cheaper and easier to store...

 

[Cycledude]

It’s definitely all a learning process, tongs and choke methods both have advantages and disadvantages in different situations. Sometimes it helps when cutting a tree if you can lay a few limbs on the ground for the tree to fall on to make hooking up the choker a little easier.
Whatever you do be careful, ain’t no firewood worth getting seriously injured over.

 

[strykerAKAmack]

A skidding cone comes in handy, a Blue barrel https://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/homemade-skidding-cone would work fine .
For those hard to reach logs https://www.portablewinch.com/products/pcw3000-gas-powered-pulling-winch-gx35
This is hard to beat cost wise

 

[civilian]

If using tongs, I have found a 2lb sledge hammer a worth while tool. Hammer the prongs into the end of the log. Be safe. Have a second person there watching you cut trees. Just in case. Be safe. Jon

 

[Gee Ray]

The barrel cone seams like a great idea for the cost. The portable winch looks good. The rope gives great control when pulling. Make sure you get the correct rope, and good rope will be costly. It is a much better idea then an electric winch with a wire cable. I would forgo the tongs and go with this portable winch and barrel to get started. I would add a clevis to use in the tractor draw bar and 2- 1/4 inch Grade 70 chains. Lighter to drag in the woods yet very strong. One to tie through the barrel as a choker and if needed to tie the choker to the tractor.

Cycledude's post with the sled would be by next purchase if the barrel does not hold up. I bet you could find a welding shop that could make the sled a little cheaper.

Safety wise use the fixed drawbar on the tractor until you get a lot of experience as people are prone to overload the three point arms making the front end get to light.

 

[CobyRupert]

I 2nd Cycledude’s suggestion for choker chain. I’ve never had a tree that was so straight and so branchless fall on ground so flat that you couldn’t get a chain under it within a foot or two of where you wanted to.

Check the rating of your tow strap that you plan on pulling with. Others may chime in with a good number, but I’d want rating to be 5-6 times the weight of the tractor. Straps and cables can hold a lot of stored energy like a rubber band. Especially if the log get hung up on something and the full pulling power of the tractor is input into the strap. If it snaps it can take a head of. (There’s YouTube’s of cables and straps snapping.) The danger is that the seat of the tractor is right in line with the strap’s recoil if it snaps.
(I like that a tractor log winch has a cage that blocks operator)

People have been known to put the strap through a tire or put a heavy mat, etc.. over the line at the midway length so that if it snaps, the added weight catches or drops it. Not foolproof, but…

 

[newbury]

Chain is the ideal when dealing with trees, dragging it across the forest floor doesn't damage it much,
BUT it's heavy.
I use a lot of rope for getting trees to fall where I want them in dense woods, and to "steer" trees near buildings.
I've found a good source of rope for me is CMC .
They sell "short" pieces of quality climbing/rescue 1/2" rope for ~$100 w/ shipping for a 50lb box.

Lengths ranging from 20′ up to 125′. 1/2″ box contains approximately 500 total feet.

/edit
And now repurposed materials is selling a 25lb box for $75.

 

[Cycledude]

You might like this setup

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[square1]

What size trees are you harvesting? Those 32" tongs are going to be a PITA to use on anything under ~24" diameter. The removable points on those timber stuff tongs make it impractical to set them into the log by smacking with a hammer. The tongs will lose their purchase on the log with any release of pulling tension. The smaller the log the more they're going to fall off.
For discussion purposes, an average green 24" log 8' long weighs ~1200#. Assume the 24" tree is 75' tall and tapers normally. This tree weighs as much as your tractor. Pulling it up hill is going to require it be cut into sections. As you work toward the smallest end of the tree, the tongs are going to become more & more useless
Use a chain. Best wishes

 

[LD1]

The barrel cone seams like a great idea for the cost. The portable winch looks good. The rope gives great control when pulling. Make sure you get the correct rope, and good rope will be costly. It is a much better idea then an electric winch with a wire cable. I would forgo the tongs and go with this portable winch and barrel to get started. I would add a clevis to use in the tractor draw bar and 2- 1/4 inch Grade 70 chains. Lighter to drag in the woods yet very strong. One to tie through the barrel as a choker and if needed to tie the choker to the tractor.

Cycledude's post with the sled would be by next purchase if the barrel does not hold up. I bet you could find a welding shop that could make the sled a little cheaper.

Safety wise use the fixed drawbar on the tractor until you get a lot of experience as people are prone to overload the three point arms making the front end get to light.

Lots of good points and advice so far in this thread but for his tractor I think 1/4" G70 is a little too small

 

[markerxt]

1/4" G70 is too small for his tractor, but he can use 1/8" or 3/16" chrome instead.

 

[Panik]

At this point my best idea is to hitch two tow straps together, one end shackled to the tractor and the other shackled to the tongs.

It may be worth the time to check out prices for appropriately rated lengths of logging/tow chain or wire rope at Home Depot/Lowes/Menards/Tractor Supply instead of using tow straps. Dragging stuff behind a tractor puts a beating on whatever you are using to pull with. At very least I probably wouldn't plan on using those tow straps as tie downs afterward. I've got two 20' sections of 5/16ths tow chain and I think they might have cost $90.00 together. You should also be able to buy by the foot for custom lengths at a comparable price to pre-cut lengths.

Another thought... Consider investing in a shorter length of heavy duty wire rope to act as a choker as an alternate to the tongs. In some situations tongs work better and in others they may not bite well enough and a wire rope choker might be of better use. Just make sure you constantly check the fasteners for the eye for slippage and the wire rope for fraying. Best of luck!

 

[LD1]

1/4" G70 is too small for his tractor, but he can use 1/8" or 3/16" chrome instead.

1/8 or 3/16 chrome what?

1/8 and 3/16 is smaller than 1/4

He has a 55hp 5000 pound bare tractor. Id even be leary of 5/16 g70 chain on a hard pull. I have stretched and broke 5/16 with less machine