Slopes and tractor tilt

[North Country]

The 2305 also appears to have a wider (front axle) track relative to the height of the tractor's hood, although that might just be perspective (you apparently crouched down in front of the tractor).

My 4400's front axle track doesn't appear to be as wide (relative to the top of the hood).

I think it's wider as it comes from from the factory, *and* I swapped the front tires to the wide side of the rim to match the 1" spacers I added in the rear.

 

[RoyJackson]

I think it's wider as it comes from from the factory, *and* I swapped the front tires to the wide side of the rim to match the 1" spacers I added in the rear.

Definitely a lower hood too, it appears. I've never looked at a 2305 in the metal, so I'm basing that statement on your pictures.

Much controversy on TBN about swapping the fronts. I did on my old 790, but probably won't on the 4400. The 790 did feel more stable, but that's strictly subjective.
The argument against swapping is that (1) it doesn't really help stability and (2) accelerated front wheel bearing wear.
I'm on the fence as far as swapping the fronts, but if it make one feel more secure, why not?

 

[North Country]

I didn't notice any change in stability. I did it to match the rear track and to test the configuration in case I decide to run 4W chains this winter. It seems just fine to me.

I don't know how your chassis compares to the 4100, but the 2305 is quite a bit shorter than that. I looked at a 4100 earlier this spring. I really like the (sub)compact size of the 2305. Sometimes I wish I had more weight but my turf and my garage thank me. When it's in full TLB configuration it takes up less space than my wife's RAV4.

 

[RoyJackson]

I didn't notice any change in stability. I did it to match the rear track and to test the configuration in case I decide to run 4W chains this winter. It seems just fine to me.

I don't know how your chassis compares to the 4100, but the 2305 is quite a bit shorter than that. I looked at a 4100 earlier this spring. I really like the (sub)compact size of the 2305. Sometimes I wish I had more weight but my turf and my garage thank me. When it's in full TLB configuration it takes up less space than my wife's RAV4.

The 4400 is what was considered a medium frame tractor back when they were built. The 4100 was a small frame (close to a subCUT) and weighed (base tractor) under 2000 lbs. The 4400 weighs in at just about 3000 lbs (again, base tractor...no loader).
I've attached pics of the tractor (just pics I have...nothing to do with the "slopes" thread). You'll see the 4400 is quite a bit larger.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Pictures! I tried to hold the camera level, but you can see by the tree trunks in the background I tended to tilt it to make the slope look *less* than actual.
Unless the ground is uneven, it doesn't look to me like the front axle pivots.

With a close enuf check you would find that the front axle pivots uphill relative to the chassis on a flat slope.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I didn't notice any change in stability. I did it to match the rear track and to test the configuration in case I decide to run 4W chains this winter. It seems just fine to me.

I don't know how your chassis compares to the 4100, but the 2305 is quite a bit shorter than that. I looked at a 4100 earlier this spring. I really like the (sub)compact size of the 2305. Sometimes I wish I had more weight but my turf and my garage thank me. When it's in full TLB configuration it takes up less space than my wife's RAV4.

In some ways stability will decrease with a wide front. While on a slope, consider turning hard downhill with a heavy bucket.
larry

 

[Reg]

While this thread has been kinda/sorta interesting, useful and fun - - I'm going back to my original position(s).

Tractors are tall and kinda tippy, there are better (SAFER !) solutions for MOWING on slopes.
There are better (again SAFER) solutions for almost everything we do on slopes.
In many cases renting a (Whatever) would be a faster, cheaper, safer way to do a lot of our tasks - - but we tend to push our SAKs (Swiss Army Knife) tractors.

One more time;
"Tractors are for tractorin', mowers are for mowin'."
(-:

 

[leonz]

While this thread has been kinda/sorta interesting, useful and fun - - I'm going back to my original position(s).

Tractors are tall and kinda tippy, there are better (SAFER !) solutions for MOWING on slopes.
There are better (again SAFER) solutions for almost everything we do on slopes.
In many cases renting a (Whatever) would be a faster, cheaper, safer way to do a lot of our tasks - - but we tend to push our SAKs (Swiss Army Knife) tractors.

One more time;
"Tractors are for tractorin', mowers are for mowin'."
(-:

Its always better to back up a slope with any mower
especially if you are unsure of the how the basic physics will
create a monster that loves gravity as the Nebraska Tractor tests
show faithfully every year.

Its always better to-
1. wear your seat belt
2. make sure the R.O.P.S., is fully erect and locked
3. buy a tilt meter from the vendor that offers them
on the home page here and be safe every time
4. back up slopes and drive down them at all times
5. leave the offending implement in full contact with the ground

 

[Reg]

Its always better to back up a slope with any mower
especially if you are unsure of the how the basic physics will
create a monster that loves gravity as the Nebraska Tractor tests
show faithfully every year.

Its always better to-
1. wear your seat belt
2. make sure the R.O.P.S., is fully erect and locked
3. buy a tilt meter from the vendor that offers them
on the home page here and be safe every time
4. back up slopes and drive down them at all times
5. leave the offending implement in full contact with the ground

That pre-supposes that you will use a tractor.
I would shift all of your points down a notch and put; "Use the most appropriate tool for the job" at #1.
Avoidance being better than solution in many/most cases.

I would delete your item #3.
In just about every practical application there is too much to do, look at, feel, watch out for - adding a goofy gauge adds a distraction - it will NOT be calibrated to your rig - a root, rock or pot hole will invalidate its reading in an instant.
A dangerous distraction at best.

 

[North Country]

OK, speaking from experience, which I will relate below, I will always have the FEL attached and don't hesitate to put stuff in it that I need to relocate.

Was planting native grass seeds on a dirt tank, going up and down the slope (not sideways) and turning around on the top of the tank to head back down. FEL inches off the ground(maybe 3 inches), loaded with about 300 lbs of rock.

A moment of inattention and I found myself doing a U turn a moment too late on the top of the dirt tank.... right front wheel went just a tad further down the opposite slope than on previous turns and in a flash the left rear loaded wheel was off the ground. I dropped the FEL further and stopped to survey the situation.

Turns out that the FEL was dug into the ground (the round part, not the teeth) and because of this it actually PREVENTED my rolling over. It provided a point of ground contact further in front of the tractor than the front wheel and with some DOWN FORCE. Thus, it PREVENTED the rear wheel from rising further, thus dramatically raising the COG and preventing allowing/initiating roll over.

Think about it.. for a rear wheel to rise, the tractor footprint rectangle must dip down on the opposing corner. A FEL out there extends that rectangle footprint beyond the front wheel. If close to the ground and dropped/driven into the ground when a roll starts, then it MUST assist in preventing the further rear tire elevation.

I was in 4wd low range, thus going very slow and momentum was not an issue, just balance.

I got out of it by strapping the tractor to my F350 to prevent actual roll over, getting additional help (my son), then SLOWLY turning front wheels downhill while AT THE SAME TIME keeping FEL in strong ground contact with hydraulic down force to maintain some modicum of stability. Ground was loose, thus slid under the FEL just enough...didn't "catch"....I also left the Brillion grass seeder pin hitch attached to the tractor...providing backdrag and some down force on the tow hitch.

Net, my experience leads me to conclude that in my case, with my tractor, in this instance, with me driving and taking the actions described, THE FEL PREVENTED A ROLL OVER.

I will tell you that I had to struggle mightily to dismount the tractor on the uphill side when the tractor was stopped. I have a cab. I truly don't believe there is any way I could have bailed out uphill from a moving non cab tractor. I would consider that move to be a suicide mission in the case I described.

Yes, my experience goes counter to what many have posted here. All I can tell you is that in my case, I WOULD have rolled over except for the FEL and the way I applied it when things went downhill (literally) very fast! Trust me, you DON'T have 1 to 2 actual seconds to take action. True time frame is about .5 second.

With my first hand experience, I will continue to keep FEL on and extremely low whenever I am on uncertain ground. You may decide that you wish to take a different approach.

Stay safe out there!

I do some of my best thinking when I'm asleep.

I just pieced together your story last night, and let me see if I have this right:

You had the FEL on.
You had the FEL loaded with 300 lbs rock.
You had nothing on the 3pt hitch (you mention the seeder was on the pin hitch)
You were towing a seeder.
You went over the crest of the hill with the outside front wheel while turning back uphill to reach the crest.

Did I get this right?

So you have a tractor with an FEL, loaded with 300lbs in the bucket and no ballast, made an uphill turn - and it was the FEL that prevented the rollover? Did I miss anything?