Small leak on 422 front wheel motor

BobRip · Jun 10, 2009

KentT, I could not find your post on what wheel motor you used for more torque. Could you put that here or link me. Are you still happy with motor, or do you have a better suggestion at this time.

Thanks,

KentT · Jun 10, 2009

BobRip said:
KentT, I could not find your post on what wheel motor you used for more torque. Could you put that here or link me. Are you still happy with motor, or do you have a better suggestion at this time.

Thanks,

Bob, from another site where I posted pictures:

I upgraded my old-style PT-425's White RS Series 12.5ci wheel motors to Char-Lynn S Series 22.7ci ones. This essentially doubled the torque while reducing the top speed to half of the stock motors. I custom-ordered the Char-Lynn motors, adding the optional Low-Speed Valving and High-Pressure seals, in addition to specifying the 1" tapered shaft and 1/2" NPT hose connectors.

Three additional modifications were required: (1) grinding out the PT's tub to clear the motors which are about 3'8" wider in diameter than the width of the rectangular White RS stock motors; (2) grinding the Char-Lynn's Woodruff key down slightly, making it "stepped" to match the keyway on the original wheel hubs which used a slightly smaller bar-type key, and (3) adding washers between the wheel hub and the retaining nut so that it would torque up tightly -- the Char-Lynn motors have a slightly longer shaft

It was about a 10-12 hour mod, overall, with most of the time spent grinding out the tub with a small air-driven cutoff tool Now, this PT (which didn't have the higher-torque 14.7ci White CE wheel motors that the new ones have) can readily climb 20-25 degree slopes and is limited only by traction, not wheel motor torque. However, the top speed is just slightly above 5MPH, so take that into consideration before you do something similar It may be TOO SLOW for your uses...

I don't regret the mod at all, for my uses. But a couple cautions: (1) these four wheel motors were expensive, over $400 each, and (b) these were special order items and I had to wait for them to be made and shipped.

It is NOT a simple "buy it and bolt it in" mod...

BobRip · Jun 10, 2009

KentT, thanks for the info. This does not sound too difficult. I would have to buy a grinder, but that's not bad. Need one anyway. Have you got a good contact to order from?

KentT · Jun 10, 2009

BobRip said:
KentT, thanks for the info. This does not sound too difficult. I would have to buy a grinder, but that's not bad. Need one anyway. Have you got a good contact to order from?

I ordered from these folks:

SophTech, Inc. - Hydraulics, Electronics, & Filters

BobRip · Jun 10, 2009

Looking at your pictures, did you only have to cut out metal from one side of the opening? That's all I saw on the picture.

KentT · Jun 10, 2009

BobRip said:
Looking at your pictures, did you only have to cut out metal from one side of the opening? That's all I saw on the picture.

Depended on the wheel -- as I understand it. An old friend actually installed them for me. Seems the openings in the tub aren't exactly aligned the same on each wheel, in relation to the mount for the wheel motor...

It was more a trial and error, and he removed more metal from the first one or two than what was really necessary...

BobRip · Jun 10, 2009

KentT said:
Depended on the wheel -- as I understand it. An old friend actually installed them for me. Seems the openings in the tub aren't exactly aligned the same on each wheel, in relation to the mount for the wheel motor...

It was more a trial and error, and he removed more metal from the first one or two than what was really necessary...

Again thanks for all of the info. I really appreciate that you took the risk of doing this.

Is the picture showing the cutout one of the first or is it one of the last? In other words could you remove less than shown on that particular unit.

KentT · Jun 11, 2009

BobRip said:
Again thanks for all of the info. I really appreciate that you took the risk of doing this.

Is the picture showing the cutout one of the first or is it one of the last? In other words could you remove less than shown on that particular unit.

One of the first. You only need to remove material on the sides in the center of the hole -- so the circular Char-Lyn motor can fit in the rectangular hole for the original White motor. There's no need to remove material from the top and bottom on the sides, just the center. You may have to remove a little material at the very bottom, but not at the top of the hole. I've attached a quick sketch that illustrates what I'm talking about.

After you can get one to fit in there, and bolt up, you can then get a sense of how big the hole has to be for the remainder. Make sure that the motor doesn not contact the sides of the hole -- so it never puts a stress on the motor casing.

Bob, if you really intend to do this -- I'd suggest you consider going one size smaller than my wheel motors (there's a 17 or 18 ci model in the same S series) unless you're REALLY sure you need the torque. If you're going to be mowing smoother lawns or something a little more speed would be nice. I'm bush-hogging hillsides and moving tens of tons of mulch (finally done, yeah!), so I wanted a "tractor" and not a "lawn mower"... I'm not exaggerating when I said I was climbing the road bank up into my driveway with a full bucket of wet mulch. But it is slow in transit now, and I'm at full treadle any time I'm going long distances. The operation is just as smooth and maneuverable, just slower and more deliberate, if that communicates...

BobRip · Jun 11, 2009

KentT said:
Bob, if you really intend to do this -- I'd suggest you consider going one size smaller than my wheel motors (there's a 17 or 18 ci model in the same S series) unless you're REALLY sure you need the torque. If you're going to be mowing smoother lawns or something a little more speed would be nice. I'm bush-hogging hillsides and moving tens of tons of mulch (finally done, yeah!), so I wanted a "tractor" and not a "lawn mower"... I'm not exaggerating when I said I was climbing the road bank up into my driveway with a full bucket of wet mulch. But it is slow in transit now, and I'm at full treadle any time I'm going long distances. The operation is just as smooth and maneuverable, just slower and more deliberate, if that communicates...

Kent, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I don't have that many slopes and basically 40% more wheel torque would be enough. I wonder if you have to cut metal for the smaller motor. It would be nice not to have to do that. There may be a little weakening from it. Also perhaps I could not grind enough from some areas since there are other plates in the way.

I got the rebuilt motor back today. The total cost was $297.88. They put in a new shaft and seal. I saw the old shaft and there was a lot of rough areas at and around the seal contact area. I think they did right by doing this. The new seal would have worn out very fast. The kit alone was $175. Please let me know if I paid for something I did not need.

I put the new motor in and she runs great. It's nice to be Traking again. My lawn is getting pretty high. I will mow tomorrow.

Again thanks to everyone and especially Kent. What a great resource and community this is.

KMA · Jul 22, 2009

Hi Bob,

Do you know the exact model number of the wheel motors on your 422?

Thanks!

J_J · Jul 22, 2009

What do you guys think on rebuilding or replacing with new on those hydraulic wheel motors? I would think that anything over 1/2 of new to rebuild, I would go with new.

BobRip · Jul 22, 2009

KMA said:
Hi Bob,

Do you know the exact model number of the wheel motors on your 422?

Thanks!

No, I don't. Part of the reason that I have not done anything.

BobRip · Jul 22, 2009

J_J said:
What do you guys think on rebuilding or replacing with new on those hydraulic wheel motors? I would think that anything over 1/2 of new to rebuild, I would go with new.

When I got mine repaired it cost almost $300. They replaced the shaft because of corrosion/pitting around the seal. The new from PT was about $305. I will probably not rebuild it again.

KentT · Jul 22, 2009

I have three used 12.5ci White RS motors that I took off mine when I did the wheel motor upgrade to CharLynn 22.7ci. If anyone wants one as a spare or backup, PM or email me with an offer.

KMA · Jul 22, 2009

BobRip said:
The new from PT was about $305.

That price doesn't sound too terrible for a new one... I will probably give PT a call about them.

KentT said:
I have three used 12.5ci White RS motors that I took off mine when I did the wheel motor upgrade to CharLynn 22.7ci. If anyone wants one as a spare or backup, PM or email me with an offer.

Hi Kent, if they are in good condition and you believe they would work on my 422, I might be interested in one. Do you recall how many hours were on them?

J_J · Jul 22, 2009

KentT said:
I have three used 12.5ci White RS motors that I took off mine when I did the wheel motor upgrade to CharLynn 22.7ci. If anyone wants one as a spare or backup, PM or email me with an offer.

Kent,

Are those motors 1500 psi motors? What is max rpm?

KentT · Jul 24, 2009

KMA said:
That price doesn't sound too terrible for a new one... I will probably give PT a call about them.

Hi Kent, if they are in good condition and you believe they would work on my 422, I might be interested in one. Do you recall how many hours were on them?

Not an exact number, but somewhere around 450 hours on them. My 425 is at about 550 now.

KentT · Jul 24, 2009

J_J said:
Kent,

Are those motors 1500 psi motors? What is max rpm?

They are 12.5ci White RS series, JJ. They're 1500 psi motors, about 140 RPM at 8gpm, as I recall. The complete specs are on White's site. Remember that these have a 1" tapered shaft, due to their use as wheel motors.