Small saw quest

[4570Man]

My neighbor lent me his almost new MS170 to try out, I was limbing a pine that came down.

WOW, I was really disappointed in the lack of power,, I am just not patient enough to wait for that saw to slowly cut.
The saw had a brand new chain on it,,,

I guess I would just rather pick up a big saw,,, and watch it fly through small stuff,,,

I’ve had tiny saws and that’s a no go for me. I don’t tend to cut any firewood smaller 3-4”. I use my Husky 353 for small work and a brush blade weed eater for cutting brush.

 

[nybirdman]

My neighbor lent me his almost new MS170 to try out, I was limbing a pine that came down.

WOW, I was really disappointed in the lack of power,, I am just not patient enough to wait for that saw to slowly cut.
The saw had a brand new chain on it,,,

I guess I would just rather pick up a big saw,,, and watch it fly through small stuff,,,

Something wrong here;that saw should be very adequate for that job.Chain on back-wards?My 180C which is very similar has enough power if the chain is sharp.

 

[newbury]

I've started looking for a limbing/cleanup saw to bridge the gap between my 20volt black and decker and the ms 290. The 290 is a great saw for bucking and felling, but it beats me up something fierce when cleaning tops. The black and decker has done amazing for what it is, but cuts slow, adding time to the job.

The obvious choice would be a ms 150 c-e, but $550 is a lot of dosh for a tiny saw.

That leaves:

Echo cs 310-$200 8.8 lbs ?hp

Stihl ms 170-currently on sale for $160 8.6 lbs 1.7bhp

Husky 240 $180 10.3lbs 2hp

Husky is out on weight alone.

So which is better, the Echo or Stihl? Or should I hoard my pennies and go for the ms 150?

I've bought 2 40V B&D saws, one for my son and was so pleased with it one for me. They do REAL well for us on limbs < 3 or 4 inches. And INEXPENSIVE, I paid $119@ from Target, and both w/ battery and charger.

But if you need a gasser either Echo (1,8bhp) or Stihl are excellent choices.

What I would do is slap a 28 inch bar or longer on the 290 and stop bending over.

I've a JD CS 62 (62CC) and noticed when I put a 28 inch bar on it and didn't have to bend over much cutting up the tops life became much easier.

Purchased a Stihl 180C ,a number of years a go;nice little saw,around $200.00

I just bought two 181C's for about $200, (again - one for my son) good addition to the chainsaw arsenal.

 

[ericm979]

I really like my Echo CS352. It's the same weight as the 310 and 330 but slightly larger engine. It's still super easy to start. I use mine for brush. For limbing I prefer a slightly larger saw (though the 352 works ok especially with narrow kerf chain). I usually use my Stihl 025 if I'm using a different saw than I used for felling.

A long bar on a small saw moves the balance point of the saw farther out. That makes it harder to handle for me. I'm built like a marathon runner. Even though I'm fit and go to the gym I'll never have much upper body muscle mass. So I'm sensitive to things that tire out my upper body faster than they ought to. OTOH my back's in great shape and repeated bending over is no problem. I have a 16" bar on the Echo and a Stihl "18 inch" bar on the 025 that's really more like 16". For me somewhere around 16" is the right balance of reach, manuverability and weight for a brush saw. I have bars up to 32" for the large saws.

 

[crazyal]

I went the other direction. I put a 28" bar on my 7900 and now I rarely bend over to limb. Between it's power and not bending over limbing is much faster and easier on my back. I rarely use my other saws now. I have thought about adding a battery powered saw but I don't know if I could put a long bar on it and if the balance/ leverage would feel right.

 

[newbury]

I went the other direction. I put a 28" bar on my 7900 and now I rarely bend over to limb. Between it's power and not bending over limbing is much faster and easier on my back. I rarely use my other saws now. I have thought about adding a battery powered saw but I don't know if I could put a long bar on it and if the balance/ leverage would feel right.

Yup, long bars saves the bending.

Try a battery operated in the stores, just try holding it at arm's length. My B&D 40V is light enough I can hold it at arm's length, rest it on a limb and cut through. VERY handy when up in trees. And I'm not very concerned with the saw dropping and hitting me because it is instant off/instant on.

 

[Coyote machine]

To the OP, top handle saws are for a specific purpose- use by pros when in a tree. They are not designed for use by consumers on the ground. They are in general much more dangerous than other saw, and consequently not suited to weekender uses.
I've always had and have Stihl saws, since my pro days back in the last century. I do have Echo weed eaters, pole saw, backpack blower, etc.
They're each good for what one wants to do job wise.
I suggest choosing what you can afford, what feels right, and buy from whom you like, who's convenient, has good rep, etc.

 

[John_Mc]

If I had to choose from the three you list, I'd go for the Echo CS 310 as the most bang for the buck. However, as others have mentioned, consider the Echo CS 352 - same weight, more power, and worth the extra $60 over the 310, IMO.

In the Husky line, I would skip the 200 series entirely. Check out the 435 or 440, or if you don't mind spending a little extra for lighter weight and more solid construction, the 439.

I second Coyote Machine's recommendation to avoid top handle saws. Those are specialized saws designed for a particular application. IMO, they really have no place in ground work. The wider spread between handles for a rear handle saw gives you much better control and leverage should you experience kickback.

I'd also avoid the temptation to put a longer bar on these saws. 14" is a good match for this size range. 16" Max. The idea of putting a long bar on a saw to avoid bending over is a false economy. You throw off the balance of the saw, and you are working at the wrong end of a long lever, increasing the strain on your low back and arms. Plus, the extra length often just gets in the way when limbing. Avoid reaching out to cut with the end of the bar: take the extra step, or bend your legs to get down low. Working with the saw close to your body is less tiring and easier to control: both make it a safer way to operate. (My wife is a Physical Therapist, and has drilled into me the importance of using good body mechanics. I guess she got tired of fixing me when I was broken.)

 

[John_Mc]

More on good body mechanics. Check out these two pictures taken of a friend of mine during a chainsaw safety workshop:



Note in the first image: The wide-footed stance is good, for a stable base, but she is standing too far from the log. Her left knee is about 18+" from the log she is cutting. This forces a bend at the waist and stretching out her arms to cut the log. Note also the awkward positioning of her arms. Her whole body is committed into the cut. If something goes wrong, it's going to take more effort and muscle to "de-commit". A couple hours of this would be very tiring and likely would result in a very sore back and arms the next day. (In her defense, the first time she had ever operated a chainsaw was about 20 minutes prior to this photo being taken.) This stance is very common to people new to chainsaws (and some experienced chainsaw operators), as they naturally (though incorrectly) think that the safe thing is to get as far away from the saw as possible.

In the second image, the instructor suggested she step closer, and bring the saw in closer to her body. In this shot, her left knee is about 6" from the log she is cutting. Note the more natural, upright position of her upper body and more comfortable arm position. She is centered and better balanced with her arms closer in to her body. It's far less fatiguing, and she is better able to control the saw.

 

[Coyote machine]

More on good body mechanics. Check out these two pictures taken of a friend of mine during a chainsaw safety workshop:

View attachment 550735 View attachment 550736

Note in the first image: The wide-footed stance is good, for a stable base, but she is standing too far from the log. Her left knee is about 18+" from the log she is cutting. This forces a bend at the waist and stretching out her arms to cut the log. Note also the awkward positioning of her arms. Her whole body is committed into the cut. If something goes wrong, it's going to take more effort and muscle to "de-commit". A couple hours of this would be very tiring and likely would result in a very sore back and arms the next day. (In her defense, the first time she had ever operated a chainsaw was about 20 minutes prior to this photo being taken.) This stance is very common to people new to chainsaws (and some experienced chainsaw operators), as they naturally (though incorrectly) think that the safe thing is to get as far away from the saw as possible.

In the second image, the instructor suggested she step closer, and bring the saw in closer to her body. In this shot, her left knee is about 6" from the log she is cutting. Note the more natural, upright position of her upper body and more comfortable arm position. She is centered and better balanced with her arms closer in to her body. It's far less fatiguing, and she is better able to control the saw.

Excellent show and tell of proper positioning for all users of chainsaws. It reminds me of when I was using my 038 Farm Boss Cutting up some birches that my electric utility had dropped on my lawn near my pond, as a preventative measure against high wind, the nearby pond, etc. Everything was going well until I began feeling high levels of pain in my neck and then saw the white faced hornets swarming to attack me further!
It happened so quick all I could do to get away was toss the saw away from me and run the other direction. I had no time to turn it off or anything else. I kept running away until I was no longer in danger. I was 34 at the time and fairly fit still, but had never seen or heard of or tangled with the hornets before. Fortunately I was able to use my upper body to quickly ditch the saw and get a safe distance from the tree.
I didn't go back to the area for several days, to retrieve the saw because the hornets were having no more saw noise near their nest. It was like getting stabbed by an icepick when they hit me. First one was chomping on back of my neck and drilling for oil at the same time. It burned like a chunk of coal. Further hornets were around my head, and when I realized what was happening I think I took off my hat to try to shoo them away.
The point is; expect the unexpected, and to be prepared to get away from your saw if needed. In order to do so one needs to have what I like to call situational awareness, whether working on the ground or in a tree. Know your terrain and always have an unencumbered escape route for all saw work. Not just when felling trees, but when limbing or bucking. One last thing, best to have someone within voice range, or at least reachable by radio or phone just in case you, the sawyer, gets into trouble and needs immediate assistance.