Snow Attachments Snow Plow Float, Chain, or Rigid

[john4153]

Thanks for the tip. My loader does have re-gen (Case LX11x).

What happens if you leave the FEL normal (not in float), have the A-frame welded to the Q/A plate, and make the blade very short coupled to the plate? Getting the angle cylinders fixed behind the plate and so forth would sure be easier with a rigid A-frame-to-plate mount. Will the trip give adequate protection? My drive is gravel, and I don't scrape it all the way to the surface.

John

Edit: I decided to attach a rough side-view sketch showing the minimum coupling to the Q/A plate (about 17"). That distance will allow at least ｱ30ｰ of angle and not interfere with the loader (17" should allow clearance on a width of 48"). Would you increase it? If so, how much? If I keep the power angle, the cylinders will need to be repositioned. I am considering a 5/16 plate. Would you recommend going up to 3/8" thick?

View attachment snow plow.pdf

 

[chopped]

If i understand , I can say it seems to be good Im all gravel here and the trip edge has caught rocks and tripped without any trouble.I am still experimenting with how to have it havent tried float yet I dont think that would work well with the chain upper link.as the loader arms would float to the ground. so i keep it low and then curle out to give chain slack.I had a pipe ont he cutting edge before and now I took that off so i can cut as deep as I like to. the angle seems to make a difference int he cut. So I like the cain part as it allows it to be adjustable and then havign the ability to push snow over bankings etc is great. I had one year wehn I had the plow mounted in the bucket. that was great for reach etc but was so far out it needed a huge counterweight. So having the QA has greatly improved that.
Oh just re read your question do you mean the plow would be ridgid mount to the plate?I would guess that youd want to use float if that was the case.Bu ive found the 'slop' in the pins etc to be a good thing.it allows the plow to adjust to grades better.

 

[john4153]

Hi chopped,

See my edit, Post #21, which occurred during your post.

I have been calling around. A local place I learned about here (Extreme Metal Products, Extreme Metal Products, LLC ) has a rigid mount to the Q/A plates and does not recommend using float on the FEL.

My driveway is gravel and about 1800 ft or so. I am beginning to think a rigid mount to the Q/A or a pivoted mount that can be made rigid with a top link may be the way to go. The pivot + top link would allow the Q/A plate to be used for other things plus allow it to be partially disassembled in the Summer and moved about more easily. I am getting weaker every year.

What are your and others' thoughts on power angle vs. manual for just personal driveway work?

John

 

[vtsnowedin]

What are your and others' thoughts on power angle vs. manual for just personal driveway work?

John

On a light weight plow that is easily swung back and forth when it is lifted off the ground it is just a matter of how many times you want to get on and off the tractor. Do all your angle work to the right then set it square for those push-backs at the intersections then back to left or right as needed.
With a nine foot plow and a cab with Velcro door zippers I think I'll keep the power angle working and be lazy. There is something about watching blowing snow spin by in a mini tornado that gives me a case of wontgetoutadacab itis.

 

[71bronco]

I'm working on this myself adapting an eight foot Fisher plow to fit my JD 533 loader. My present plan is to weld the Fisher push beam with it's latch pins to my adapter plate level with the attachment pins on the other side of the plate. Then I can set the loader close to the height of the push plates of the F250 it came off of and it should work right. This will allow the plow to trip up when it hits a fixed object and keep the ends of the loader arms a safe distance above the road. I'm going to try just the chain at first but if that doesn't cut clean I might try a top link from plate to plow to force the plow forward from where the trip springs have it ride.
Trial and error. Others who have finished their own project please chime in and save us a few trials.

I built mine last year and it has worked out great. I bought a Meyers 6.5' plow that someone had attached to a QA plate but found it stuck out too far. So I made up new attachment points underneath and behind the plate. This way it is closer to the tractor,still will float with the chain, but still keeps the original frame intact so you can angle it with the cylinders(which I will get one of these days). I can also put downpressure by dropping and dumping the loader so the plate pushes down on the frame of the plow. Here are some pics before it got painted.

Jeff

 

[john4153]

71bronco,

That is indeed an interesting approach. I need to get some more measurements of my loader tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing.

John

 

[amigauser]

Thanks for the tip. My loader does have re-gen (Case LX11x).

What happens if you leave the FEL normal (not in float), have the A-frame welded to the Q/A plate, and make the blade very short coupled to the plate? Getting the angle cylinders fixed behind the plate and so forth would sure be easier with a rigid A-frame-to-plate mount. Will the trip give adequate protection? My drive is gravel, and I don't scrape it all the way to the surface.

John

Edit: I decided to attach a rough side-view sketch showing the minimum coupling to the Q/A plate (about 17"). That distance will allow at least ｱ30ｰ of angle and not interfere with the loader (17" should allow clearance on a width of 48"). Would you increase it? If so, how much? If I keep the power angle, the cylinders will need to be repositioned. I am considering a 5/16 plate. Would you recommend going up to 3/8" thick?

View attachment 296763

That is bascically my setup. I can still rotate the plow side to side but it is manual with a pin. I do not have front hydraulics. If you have front 3rd function hydraulics using a cyclinder to rotate left right would be nice.

 

[john4153]

I don't have front remote on my tractor, but the electric hydraulics came with the plow.

John

 

[vtsnowedin]

I built mine last year......
........ Here are some pics before it got painted.

Jeff

View attachment 296769View attachment 296770View attachment 296771View attachment 296772

Thanks for the pics. I had to look at them a couple of times each to see what you had done. I see the Meyers plow has a pivot point where the turn circle meets the back of the plow blade. My Fisher does not. If I see it right your plow can drop down until the lift chain comes tight and can pivot up only until the A frame hits the underside of the arms you used to move the attachment point to the rear. How dose it work? Do you get enough up and down travel for it to follow the ground or do you need to keep adjusting as you go?

 

[Katahdin]

Full-trip plows will have that A-Frame pivot point on the blade. The Fisher plow is likely a Trip-edge design, the hinge is on the bottom of the blade.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Full-trip plows will have that A-Frame pivot point on the blade. The Fisher plow is likely a Trip-edge design, the hinge is on the bottom of the blade.

I have seen Myers plows in action looking like they were laying down on the job. I haven't actually looked at all the brands of plows so I don't know all the possible set ups. Mostly I've been around Fishers and larger plows such as Viking and Flink that get mounted on highway plow trucks. Probably a thread around here somewhere talking about who makes the best plow. Might have to look it up some cold winter night.

 

[Katahdin]

The larger plow makers these days produce both full trip and trip edge designs, there are pros/cons for each. Fisher may not make full trip plows but their sister company Western does. The full trip plow you saw may just need its spring tension adjusted.

 

[Ford850]

After using my Big Ox low for years now, there is no way I would use one without a blade float (not FEL float) and blade trip functions. Mine also floats/tilts left to right for contours which is helpful. But if I try to float my FEL it puts a great deal of stress on the arms, and the tractor steering. If I lift the FEL slightly and only let the blade float it plows effortlessly.

 

[71bronco]

Thanks for the pics. I had to look at them a couple of times each to see what you had done. I see the Meyers plow has a pivot point where the turn circle meets the back of the plow blade. My Fisher does not. If I see it right your plow can drop down until the lift chain comes tight and can pivot up only until the A frame hits the underside of the arms you used to move the attachment point to the rear. How dose it work? Do you get enough up and down travel for it to follow the ground or do you need to keep adjusting as you go?

When I start plowing I just set the curl so the plow frame is to parallel to the ground then I just raise and lower the loader for plowing. The chain is loose when the plow is down so the plow can go up and down following the ground. The picture with the plow on the tractor is kind of misleading because after I started using it I adjusted the chain tighter and didn't have to curl the loader so much.

Jeff

 

[PILOON]

If you carefully examine Fisher truck frames (early models) you will notice they provide 3 attachment holes.
Proper installation wants the push frame to be parallel to the ground otherwise the plow will dig in if pushing downwards or climb if pushing upwards.
If arms slant down you will have very light steering and as well gather all that gravel in your drive. This is desired if you wish to get a squeaky clean surface but useless in heavy snows as well as the first snow fall as you'd want to build a base on gravel drives.
My take is 3 mounting holes with the center being exactly same height as the plow, i.e. arms parallel to the ground (on flat surface) and be prepared to change depending on snow conditions and desired results.
My 'parallel' installation allows me full blade loads plowing at 45 deg. without light steering.(6' blade on a 20 hp Mitsubishi tractor)
I'll also add the closer to the tractor the blade is, the less side slippage you'll experience.

 

[sal64]

i used a rigid for couple of yrs it dug up my gravel on blacktop is good, i just changed it to blade float this yr and its much better no digging the only disadvantage is backdraging no down pressure to scrap ice or wet snow but i vote chain float for sure.

 

[john4153]

@sal64
You just ruined my day.

I searched on every brand of snow plow for tractor FEL's that I could find. Of the eight brands I checked that had decent pictures, only Meyer had a chain float. The reason I say tractor, is that the geometry and valving of a skid steer loader may be enough different that a product for a skid loader may not be best for a tractor FEL (i.e., exclude frame mounts). For some reason, Meyer does not make a point of its float in its advertising, so maybe in that case, I just misinterpreted its pictures. The JD loader-mounted snow plow, to mention just one common brand name, is fixed.

I wish someone from JD, CID, Snopro, Kwik Way, Boss, and the others would chime in with why their mount is rigid.

Back to my situation, I don't like to dig up the gravel, so when I plow with my bucket, I set it just a little above the gravel layer and go slowly. Sure, it leaves some snow, but my transportation in the winter is 4WD.

I was all set to "finalize" the design tomorrow. My Q/A mount will arrive Thursday. I had the electric hydraulic pump and cylinders design-mounted behind the Q/A plate and the A-frame was rigid to the plate. Now, I will have to reconsider those plans. Of course, when I am cutting and welding, nothing is really ever final.

John

 

[vtsnowedin]

The full trip plow you saw may just need its spring tension adjusted.

Oh I think it was working right as the operator had hit an object that required tripping. But once tripped the blade was cammed over and stayed flat (lieing down on the job) until the forward motion stopped and the load on the springs reduced. The only thing that needed adjusting was the operators head space and timeing.

 

[SHORT KID]

I have a Meyers 6.5 ft power angle blade that I mounted to my loader arms. I welded 6x6 1/4 in brackets to a 6 in channel iron and drilled the brackets for the arm pins. The complete A frame and pusher is welded to the channel iron. I use a chain and it floats with that. The right/ left cylinders work off my curl and dump. The blade is hinged to the A frame so it will lay down if something is hit. I took TSC mats and cut a piece to mount between cutting edge and blade, I have a gravel drive. When it is set up proper, the A frame is close to level and you can angle it right/ left with the cutting edge not raising on the ends. It does stick out with it angled and with a full load it will pull the steering off. This way I can pile snow higher than the canopy, if I want to. This rig is now on the second tractor and is about 9 or so years old without a problem. My area gets a lot of snow. The only concern I had for a while is the loader arms are close to the ground so I welded some 1 in pipe to the channel iron and put my round feet in them just in case. I guess that I am better at fabricating than posting pix so sorry about that!!!!!!!

 

[RockyNY]

I have an older version of that same plow, a Meyers ST90. I built my QA mount with the chain float, and I wouldn't recommend going any other route. Using the chain float has many advantages, but mainly being that the entire weight of the FEL stays over the front end of the tractor, and that's what you want to accomplish, both for traction and steering purposes. I don't have my tractor chained, but I don't have problems with traction or steering unless the snow is exceptionally wet and heavy, and even them problems are minimal. I also stuck the plow mount back under the QA plate as far as I could. Also, I made no modifications whatsoever to the plow and A-frame itself. You can see pictures and more info in my build thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/snow-removal/252343-another-qa-plow-build-thread.html