So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[buickanddeere]

I think hydrogen fuel cells will be our future. I was against it but recently I became away of a local company that's trucking natural gas compressed at high pressures all around the state. Most people would never know what was in the semi trailer. It'd be real easy to create a filling station where the truck pulls up, unhooks the trailer, connects the trailer to the station, and leaves with the empty trailer. Unlike batteries it doesn't require a massive upgrade to the electrical grid as the hydrogen generation can be done close to the source of power and it's virtually limitless.

At first I didn't think it was worth it because of the amount of energy needed but I see that changing as transporting it is advancing. Also with the amount of natural gas being pumped out of the ground it's creating a plentiful source of hydrogen.

How do you propose to store and transport hydrogen?

 

[Loren49]

The natural processes that create oil are still underway today, they have not stopped, just like wind and sun light they continue. Natures production of oil shouldn't be looked at any different then any other natural process. Refineries are no different than and are equivalent to a solar panel or a wind generator. HS

So you are claiming that energy arriving from the sun today that is converted to electrical energy today and wind that blows because of the suns energy today (or yesterday) that is converted to electrical energy by a wind turbine today should not be differentiated from fossil fuel produced electricity.

So plant matter that is the result of photosynthesis with energy from the sun up to 650 million years ago that has been stored underground for millions of years and is now brought to the surface works as renewable in your mind.

Its almost unbelievable????????????

Your definition of renewable does not match its accepted definition.

The rate at which financially viable fossil fuels have been extracted in the past 100 years far exceeds what has been created in the past 100 years. Of course you have a right to claim most anything you want but by understood definitions there is a problem.

Don't make up your own definitions. Any informed person would be amused by your claim that fossil fuels are renewable by its accepted definition.

Full Definition of FOSSIL FUEL

: a fuel (as coal, oil, or natural gas) formed in the earth from plant or animal remains

RENEWABLE

noun

a source of energy that is not depleted by use, such as water, wind, or solar power.

Fossil fuels could be depleted while renewable's can not. The amount of electricity produced by solar/wind today in no way effects how much can be produced in the future.

Very basic concept. :thumbsup:


Loren

 

[madmax12]

So you are claiming that energy arriving from the sun today that is converted to electrical energy today and wind that blows because of the suns energy today (or yesterday) that is converted to electrical energy by a wind turbine today should not be differentiated from fossil fuel produced electricity.

So plant matter that is the result of photosynthesis with energy from the sun up to 650 million years ago that has been stored underground for millions of years and is now brought to the surface works as renewable in your mind.

Its almost unbelievable????????????

Your definition of renewable does not match its accepted definition.

The rate at which financially viable fossil fuels have been extracted in the past 100 years far exceeds what has been created in the past 100 years. Of course you have a right to claim most anything you want but by understood definitions there is a problem.

Don't make up your own definitions. Any informed person would be amused by your claim that fossil fuels are renewable by its accepted definition.

Full Definition of FOSSIL FUEL

: a fuel (as coal, oil, or natural gas) formed in the earth from plant or animal remains

reｷnewｷaｷble

noun

a source of energy that is not depleted by use, such as water, wind, or solar power.

Fossil fuels could be depleted while renewable's can not. The amount of electricity produced by solar/wind today in no way effects how much can be produced in the future.

Loren

How many fossils were dug out of oil wells?

Do you have any info on that?

TIA

 

[woodlandfarms]

Nobody said unlimited . Just 500+ years worth of fossil carbon fuel. No problem to breed algae to make oil in south water ponds in the US south . Lots of nuclear to make liquid hydrocarbon fuel from CO2 and hydrogen .
These alarmists running around crying that we are running out of energy have no clue. Or they have an agenda. I remember dire warnings in the 1970's that there would be no oil left before 2000.

Biological oil is a long ways away for mass production. A friend of mine is one of the top guys in LA in the field and while they have a system, it is not cost effiecient on a industry scale.

Running out of energy? I think what is being said is we are running out of natural resources we currently use. Big difference.

Please find me your source on the 70's quote. This said, we changed our ways. First, fuel efficiency was dramtically increased, second, we found new ways to produce from dry wells, and finally we found new resources.

Your head is in the sand if you don't think we have a looming problem with our current energy producing model.

 

[Loren49]

How many fossils were dug out of oil wells?

Do you have any info on that?

TIA

What??????

They drill (grind up rock) about a mile into the earth. Then oil is pump/gas is pumped out. Do you understand the structure of fossils and if so how would you figure that they'd come out intact in the grindings or in the oil.

I assume you were just kidding????:confused3:

Loren

 

[Redneck in training]

Nobody said unlimited . Just 500+ years worth of fossil carbon fuel. No problem to breed algae to make oil in south water ponds in the US south . Lots of nuclear to make liquid hydrocarbon fuel from CO2 and hydrogen .
These alarmists running around crying that we are running out of energy have no clue. Or they have an agenda. I remember dire warnings in the 1970's that there would be no oil left before 2000.

We have coal for next 500 years (at current consumption level) but not oil or gas. As the supply of oil and gas decline or consumption increases energy become expensive.
The problem with solar or wind is not availability or predictability. If the systems are spread over large area both are very predictable. The problem is control. Small scale like home system can produce large amount of energy but are not dispatchable. It would be hard to ask homeowner to switch his PV off because the utility can't shut down a power plant for a while. Then it is cost of the grid upkeep. Part of the upkeep cost is calculated into the rate. The utility will lose that. But the way people are charged for energy might be changed so the people with alternative sources would pay their share of the upkeep. Utility would prefer to build a power plant financed by taxpayer money and use it as an excuse for rate increase.

 

[houstonscott]

We have coal for next 500 years (at current consumption level) but not oil or gas. As the supply of oil and gas decline or consumption increases energy become expensive. The problem with solar or wind is not availability or predictability. If the systems are spread over large area both are very predictable. The problem is control. Small scale like home system can produce large amount of energy but are not dispatchable. It would be hard to ask homeowner to switch his PV off because the utility can't shut down a power plant for a while. Then it is cost of the grid upkeep. Part of the upkeep cost is calculated into the rate. The utility will lose that. But the way people are charged for energy might be changed so the people with alternative sources would pay their share of the upkeep. Utility would prefer to build a power plant financed by taxpayer money and use it as an excuse for rate increase.

Known oil reserves are 4000-6000 years, coal reserves are even more. Turns out there is oil just about everywhere. HS

 

[Loren49]

Known oil reserves are 4000-6000 years, coal reserves are even more. Turns out there is oil just about everywhere. HS

List of countries by proven oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When will oil run out? | Institution of Mechanical Engineers
When will oil run out?

Current oil supplies

There are an estimated 1.3 trillion barrels of proven oil reserve left in the world’s major fields, which at present rates of consumption will be sufficient to last 40 years.

By 2040, production levels may be down to 15 million barrels per day – around 20% of what we currently consume. It is likely by then that the world’s population will be twice as large, and more of it industrialised (and therefore oil dependent).

Have we passed the point of maximum oil production?

There is an ongoing debate between ‘peak oil’ theorists, who believe that we have already passed the point of maximum production, and oil companies who state that new technologies will extend the life of oil well beyond estimates.

What is clear is that oil is getting harder to find and extract, and this is reflected in rising prices. A barrel that cost $10 in 1998 and $64 in 2007 today costs $135. Economists are predicting that the $200 ceiling will be broached before the end of the year.

:: Peak Oil: The End of the Oil Age ::

The world is not running out of oil itself, but rather its ability to produce high-quality cheap and economically extractable oil on demand. After more than fifty years of research and analysis on the subject by the most widely respected & rational scientists, it is now clear that the rate at which world oil producers can extract oil is reaching the maximum level possible

Historical Oil Prices: InflationData.com

If you check the chart at the above site you will see that the 2013 price of crude adjusted for inflation is over 5 times the inflation adjusted price in the 1960s.

Where did you get the 4000 to 6000 claim?

Having oil exist and economically and environmentally viable oil are very different.

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

They don't know!

HS

 

[ultrarunner]

I thought oil is under a $100 a barrel and this is in inflated dollars...