So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[BigE_]

Some day, batteries will be good, but not yet.

A better solution to charging stations would be to have stations that could swap out your battery.

Really, the better solution is the quick charge station. The swap out stations really aren't feasible with any of the cars, because they all take different batteries. Think you can get them to change and come up with a one size fits all solution? Look how many 12V battery options there are out there. (Seriously needs to be maybe 5 sizes of 12V batteries, from ATVs to motorcycles to lawn mowers, up to big rig trucks).

Quick charge station: 20 minutes and you're good to go for another 60-80 miles. The time keeps coming down. Soon enough it will be down to 5 minutes.

EV are probably not the end all solution, but definitely a step in the right direction in terms of making it cheaper to drive.

 

[BigE_]

Firstly Musk is a visionary genius! Could you imagine the world if there were 100 guys of his calibre? Id love to see him sink his teeth into alternative modes of travel and get them off the drawing board, like his Hyperloop concept.

One thing thats missing from the Leaf is a gas, LNG or hydrogen powered extender. You wouldnt need it for 99% of trips, but it'd be nice for longer ones. Just a small, pull behind trailer with lightweight generator you could leave at home most days. Best of both worlds. Like a volt, but without having to drag around a gas engine when its not required .
.

Saw a video of a battery bank you pulled behind you in a trailer for extended range. Plugs directly into your car with a standardized plug (at least they got that part right). The concept was that you rented the trailer as needed, and could do a very quick swap at the swap station when you needed to go further for the day.

 

[Pilot]

BigE, in the US, we all drive on the right side of the road, don't we? And turn signal stalks are on the left, headlights on the right. Throttle on the right, then brake, then clutch.

Yes, different configurations would be needed due to different car sizes and layouts, but there would be some standardization just to keep costs down.

Fast charge? I hadn't heard about 20 minute times. So I looked at the Leaf website and they show 30 amp units for $450, but they don't say how long it will take that unit to charge you. OTOH, they show a 125 amp unit for $25000 and a 550 amp unit for $39,900. Not your typical household charger. For comparison, my home circuit panel, fairly typical, is 200 amp rated.

So I looked around some more for your 20 minute charge time. Found a chart at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - 3.3 vs 6.6 KW on-board charger - charging times? that claimed 4.2 hours at 30 amps and 240 volts, best time listed, worst time was 22.8 hours at 12 amps and 120 volts. These were from a warm dead battery. Never found close to a 20 minute charge time, but I can fill my tank in less than 5 minutes.

Oh, and one more thing. That pure clean electricity that you save the world by using is often generated with dirty, filthy coal or here in the Northwest, much of it comes from fish killing hydro power.

And remember, a Leaf, made by a foreign company, is only a financial good deal because other Americans are paying much of the cost thru their taxes.

 

[Redneck in training]

It is like every new thing. If you look at cars around 1910 they were bad idea too. Every horse would beat them. And look at them today. When one of my junkers dies I will buy electric car. I am hoping that by then they will have better max. distance. I already have 24 kW of solar panels on my house with room for about 10 more on the racking.
http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=20209&sid=18073 or https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/h2eX136588
Since both I and my wife drive high miles cars when we need to drive long distance we rent a car that is the best suited for particular trip.

I just read recently an article about batteries that store energy in the electrolyte instead in electrodes. So to recharge those you refill them. Only problem is that they operate at high temperature. This technology is not entirely new. Military uses it in example in ballistic missiles, torpedoes etc. When cold it will retain its charge long time. You just heat the battery up and you are ready to go.

Another new technology are ultra capacitors based on carbon nano cells. They have unlimited number of cycles, can be discharged (as opposed to batteries) to zero energy without detrimental effect on capacity but don't have the power density per mass or volume to make them practical for mobile use. Yet. I think Tesla is betting on those for future vehicles.

The beauty of gasoline or diesel is the energy density per mass and volume. That is hard to beat. But for how long?

 

[buickanddeere]

Looking at a spark EV for the next vehicle. Much more motor power than the Leaf.
Should be able to plug it in at work and the kids plug it in at school because it's "green". 5-10Kw of interior heater does draw on the battery in winter.

 

[buickanddeere]

The world really needs a better battery. Suspect it's possible but the oil companies aren't about to permit that to happen.

The only way there is going to be a better chemical storage battery. Is if the Almighty himself re-writes the laws of physics,chemistry and the periodic table.
These people that keep saying a better battery is just around the corner are unaware of facts.

 

[buickanddeere]

I still save 20-40 dollars per month over my old gas bill!

$20-$40 a month is peanuts, pocket change and not worth the bother to "save" by shortening your vehicle's range.

For ourselves we have penciled out savings of over $500 a month to work, into town and kids to drive to school for sports teams.
Still waiting for GM to bring the Spark EV into Canada.

 

[buickanddeere]

battery technology is not where it needs to be yet. Hopefully it will improve.

Sorry it can't measurably improve. if you wan to make the battery pack 10X more $$$ then maybe another 15-20% more range. Unless you want to sit on top of several hundred pounds of molten salt battery.

 

[buickanddeere]

They built the first practical production electric car in London in 1884 and if all manufacturers devoted time to electric vehicles we would have been off fuel 50 years ago. So here we are 130 years later trying to figure out how to build an electric vehicle, when we should have been doing it all along.

The only way electric vehicles could work today is if electric vehicles was all we ever had. Once gasoline engines were improved. The unlimited distance via quick re-fueling spelled the electric's demise.
Now if gasoline and diesel vehicles had never been built due to some sort of law. Then roads, the work place, where people live would be much changed. Public transit would be everywhere.
The US would look like European nations where fuel in over $9.00 a gallon. Work, homes and shopping is all within walking, bicycle,scooter or public transit reach. taxi's take the slack when the remaining don't manage.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Like I said, the Tesla is hands down the best of the bunch (Saddly your hands better be full of gold).

You mention Battery Swap....

Battery Swap | Tesla Motors

I know one of my friends is in this program, although he has some serious reservations (fear of getting someones clunker battery).

I also know of 2 guys who commute Seattle to Portland and back and both use Tesla's They say they have to leave charged and initially they were sweating the arrival in traffic but while they can't really make big variances to their trip, they make it none the less