So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[dave1949]

I think we are only scratching the surface so far with nanotechnology. Nano particles can alter the normal (as we know it) behavior of materials. It's not changing basic physics, but a lot more can be done with less material due to increased efficiency of molecular interactions. If that translates to more power from a smaller package, it would be a good thing.

Nano particles aren't without their own potential environmental and health problems. I read recently that some water used/provided by water utilities in a typical use from a river, clean and return to a river--which gets repeated downstream at the next water utility system--already contains the nano particles added to toothpaste for improved cleaning/scrubbing of teeth.

Nobody really knows the potential side effects of ubiquitous nano particles introduced into the environment. I believe we will find out, hopefully not too late.

 

[Tollster]

Youtube video of the Tesla manufacturing plant:
Tesla Motors Part 1: Behind the Scenes of how the Tesla Model S is Made-The Window-WIRED - YouTube

 

[ultrarunner]

^^^I drive by the plant just about every day.

Spent a day there in 2001 when we watched Mom's new Corolla being built back in the day when it was GM/Toyota NUMI

We were given the full VIP treatment and saw her car from bare shell all the way to her car driving off the line.... lots of the guys signed their name in the engine well as it was going down the line.

Glad to see Tesla is making a go.

 

[Knight9]

This electric car stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Some areas don't even have enough electricity for their current usage. Can you imagine the brown outs/black outs if everyone in, say California, went to electric cars and had them charging all the time? :shocked: And no one wants any more power plants. Always some reason you can't burn the coal or natural gas. And not even wind farms are welcome anymore!

 

[dave1949]

This electric car stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Some areas don't even have enough electricity for their current usage. Can you imagine the brown outs/black outs if everyone in, say California, went to electric cars and had them charging all the time? :shocked: And no one wants any more power plants. Always some reason you can't burn the coal or natural gas. And not even wind farms are welcome anymore!

EV's are not a universal solution. They do make sense for some though. I have adequate solar electric capability to keep an EV charged. 90% of my driving is 30 miles or less round trip. There is no technical reason I couldn't add an EV to the family fleet and make good use of it without imposing any extra load on the grid.

 

[DarkBlack]

The future isn't bigger batteries with fast charge stations, or swap stations.
The future is overhead and/or under-road direct consumption supply/charging. It will be either direct contact like railroads and trolleys, subways, or by new technologies such as inductive transmission. The car's will have just a large enough storage for short stints off the network.

 

[3930dave]

EV's are not a universal solution. They do make sense for some though. I have adequate solar electric capability to keep an EV charged. 90% of my driving is 30 miles or less round trip. There is no technical reason I couldn't add an EV to the family fleet and make good use of it without imposing any extra load on the grid.

Hardcore DIY'ers have done that for a long time. Esp. before grid-intertie was common, it was one useful way to justify pouring more money into larger PV arrays at home - also use the solar energy for transportation. Back then (and still today), people were building their own EVs - way more work and effort than most people want to take on though...... today, there are pretty much complete turnkey options on both the vehicle and power gen side, chequebook dependent.

The DIY market does occasionally blaze some trails, that are picked up commercially. That's why we have a plug-in Prius now, from the factory. OEM marketing depts know that many consumers today don't want to put any time/effort into anything other than operating a gas pump - the reason that Toyota resisted going plug-in for so long, and why the Chevy Volt makes a lot of sense in terms of how many people view transportation logistics.

There's been some progress on the cooling front, but a big issue is the energy required for heating/cooling a vehicle's interior. For a lot of Canada, what makes better technical sense is an electric car that uses a mini-reefer for HVAC. Save the batteries for driving the wheels, and use the energy dense fossil fuel just for the heavy HVAC loads. The Green Marketing aspect of that combo is probably the tougher challenge today, than anything technical.

Rgds, D.

 

[Pilot]

Dave is right about DYI'ers. A friend of mine built an electric car in the early '70's, after the oil embargo. Had a short commute and since he worked for an electric utility they let him charge it at work. He is an electrical engineer. So how to make a car go on electric power has been known a long time--since the early 1900's or before, actually. And still the problem is the batteries--if that problem had been solved we might have electric cars all over the place, but it hasn't, not on a practical level anyway. Not many can afford a Tesla.

And Knight addressed a really big problem. We don't have the power generating capability nor the distribution system to charge a large number of electric cars. See my previous note about how much power it takes to charge an electric car, maybe 500 amps for a quick charge and your home panel is often rated for just 200 amps.

 

[ultrarunner]

Every Tesla driver I know was driving Mercedes or BMW... the big ones.

Every Leaf driver I know has solar at home and some have it at work.

All of the above are medical doctors.

And, very important... they all get the carpool lane sticker even having a solo driver... can be of immense benefit if you drive commute time in the Bay Area.

Several of the Nurses and one Tech drive Toyota Prius.

 

[buickanddeere]

And Knight addressed a really big problem. We don't have the power generating capability nor the distribution system to charge a large number of electric cars. See my previous note about how much power it takes to charge an electric car, maybe 500 amps for a quick charge and your home panel is often rated for just 200 amps.

Unless you live in Haiti, Cuba or other country with similar challenges. I can assure you that there is plenty of off peak generating capacity to charge a nation of electric vehicles after 7,8 or 9 PM in the evening . After the supper, laundry and air conditioning loads are down.
No charger takes 500amps from the home 240V mains.
The typical electrical car user gets by with the level 1 120V wall outlet and chargers at approx 1KW per hour. The next step up is the level 2 SAE J1772 plug and onboard 8KW , 32amp 240V charger which 99.99% of the home high speed charging systems are. Less power than an electric water heater and electric clothes dryer operating at the same time.
There is a high powered level 2 provision that charges at 19KW and draws 80amps from the 240V mains. That is a quick charge however and heats the batteries. The 8KW level is a good trickle charge and will charge a depleted battery pack to full charge over night.
The high powered DC 20 minute charge system touted as the answer do draw some serious power from the grid. They also make the vehicles battery cooling systems run at full capacity to reduce the chance of a battery fire.
Iirc the Chev spark EV uses a 369V lithium battery pack rated at 21Kw hr.
GM does not fully discharge or charge the lithium battery packs. Or otherwise the batteries life would be shortened due to deep cycling.