So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[buickanddeere]

Your assertion has been noted a number of time earliers. Consider the subsidies for fossil fuel and nuclear industries also along with all of the costs from pollution including health costs and environmental damage. Add in the cost of proper care for hundreds of years for all the currently on site nuclear waste. Put a dollar amount on all of this and do a comparison.

Fossil Fuels Vs Clean Energy: State-By-State Exposé | CleanTechnica

May 26th, 2014 by Tina Casey

A new report called “Attacks on Renewable Energy Policy by Fossil Fuel Interests 2013-2014″ contains a detailed rundown of the money trail behind the fossil fuels vs clean energy battle. That’s not exactly new news to those of you following clean tech legislation, but before you file this away under D for Dog bites man, consider that the report was generated by the Energy & Policy Institute.

The Energy & Policy Institute (EPI) is the same outfit that produced “ALEC Exposed” and “Manufacturing Doubt,” which among other projects gives it a solid track record for following the money from lobbying organizations to the impact on federal legislation. The latest report digs deep into the emerging threat to clean energy policy on the state level.

I think Europe might not be in agreement:
European Industrial Initiative on wind energy | SETIS - European Commission

Wind Energy Blows Away Records Across Europe, Driving Emissions and Electricity Prices Down - Blog - Into the Wind
WIND ENERGY BLOWS AWAY RECORDS ACROSS EUROPE, DRIVING EMISSIONS AND ELECTRICITY PRICES DOWN
15 January 2014 by Michael Goggin Michael Goggin
The data is in, and 2013 went out with a bang as wind energy output soared to new records across Europe. Electricity prices and air pollution dropped as wind energy drastically reduced fossil fuel use during high winter energy demand. Ireland, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Germany, and the UK all saw noteworthy wind output records broken with no electric reliability problems. Below, we summarize the news that has just broken.

Its so easy to do a little research to give opinions some support.

Loren

Have a look. Every country with "green" energy also have the highest electrical rates. Don't you get that?
In Canada the cost of disposal is already paid for and invested waiting for the day it needs to be used.
Storing waste in a deep geological depository is not particularly expensive. it's just a mine shaft into impermeable rock.
Want something to really worry about? How about disposal and storage of something toxic like lead, cadmium, arsenic, mercury, various organic chemicals and dioxins. Those was what sicken, cripple and kill people.

Global electricity price comparison

For comparison:

1 litre of gasoline/petrol contains 33 megajoules
1 US gallons of gasoline contains 120 megajoules
65 standard alkaline AA batteries contain 1 megajoule

Country/Territory US cents/kWh US cents/megajoule Date Source
Solomon Islands 88 to 99 [73]
United States Virgin Islands 50.8 to 54.8 Mar 31, 2013 [83]
Turks and Caicos Islands 48.99 Oct 24, 2013
Tonga 47 Jun 1, 2011 [6]
Jamaica 44.7 Dec 4, 2013 [41][42]
Niue 44.3 [46]
Denmark 40.38 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
American Samoa 38.3 to 40.4 10.64 to 11.22 [6]
Tuvalu 36.55 [46]
Germany 36.25 May 1, 2013 [10]
Philippines 36.13 Dec 6, 2013 [67]
Cook Islands 34.6 to 50.2 [6]
Kiribati 32.7 [46]
Western Samoa 30.5 to 34.7 [6]
Australia 30.817 kW/h plus 91.755 cents per day service fee 6.11 to 11.06 Aug 23, 2012 [8][9]
Marshall Islands 29.2 to 36.5 [6]
Belgium 29.08 8.08 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Netherlands 28.89 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Italy 28.39 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Ireland 28.36 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Sweden 27.10 Nov 1, 2011 [10]
Guyana 26.80 Apr 1, 2012 [31]
New Caledonia 26.2 to 62.7 [6]
Portugal 25.25 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Switzerland 25.00 Jan 6, 2014 [32]
Tahiti 25 to 33.1 [6]
Hungary 23.44 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Chile 23.11 Jan 1, 2011 [22][23]
Palau 22.83 [46]
Spain 22.73 Jul 1, 2012 [72]
Singapore 20.88 Oct 1, 2013 [71]
Finland 20.65 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
United Kingdom 20.0 Nov 30, 2012 [10][11]
Vanuatu 20 to 52 [6]
Japan 20 to 24 Dec 31, 2009 [43][44]
Papua New Guinea 19.6 to 38.8 [6]
France 19.39 Nov 1, 2011 [10][11]
Mexico 19.28** Aug 22, 2012 [58][59]
Lithuania 19.27 Jan 1, 2013 [54][55]
New Zealand 19.15 Apr 19, 2012
Argentina (Concordia) 19.13* 5.31 Jun 14, 2013
Romania 18.40 Jun 26, 2013 [30]
Latvia 18.25 Jun 1, 2012 [52][53]
Colombia (Bogota) 18.05 Jun 1, 2013 [24][25]
Israel 18* Jun 1, 2013 [40]
Croatia 17.55 Jul 1, 2008 [26]
Uruguay 17.07 to 26.48 Feb 11, 2014 [84]
Bulgaria 16.33 4.54 Jul 1, 2012 [14]
Brazil 16.20 4.5 Jan 1, 2011 [15]
Norway 15.9 Jul 25, 2013
Cambodia 15.63 to 21.00 in Phnom Penh 4.34 to 5.83 Feb 28, 2014 [16][17]
Hong Kong
(Kln.) 12.66 to 23.47 Jan 1, 2013 [34]
Turkey 12.57 18.63 Feb 4, 2014 [78]
Hong Kong
(HK Is.) 12.04 to 24.05 Jan 1, 2013 [33]
Fiji 12 to 14.2 [6]
Laos 11.95 for >150kWh, 4.86 for 26-150 kWh, 4.08 for 0-25 kWh Feb 28, 2014 [50][51]
Canada, Ontario 11.17 2010 [18]
Moldova 11.11 Apr 1, 2011 [60]
Perú 10.44 2007 [65][66]
Iceland 9 to 10 Jun 1, 2012 [38][39]
Indonesia 8.75 Feb 1, 2013 [36][37]
United States 8 to 17 ; 37*** Sep 1, 2012 [81][82]
South Africa 8 to 16***** Nov 5, 2012 [74]
India 8 to 12 Feb 1, 2013 [35]
Paraguay 8 2011 [64]
China 7.5 to 10.7 May 17, 2012 [21]
Nepal 7.2 to 11.2 Jul 16, 2012 [61]
Malaysia 7.09 to 14.76 Apr 1, 2013 [57]
Taiwan 7 to 17 Jun 1, 2012 [76]
Canada, Ontario, Toronto 6.52 to 11.69 depending on time of day plus transmission, delivery, and other charges of about 3.75/kWh 1.81 to 3.25 Feb 9, 2014 [19]
Dubai 6.26 to 10.35 (plus 1.63 fuel surcharge) [27][28]
Vietnam 6.20 to 10.01 2011 [87]
Thailand 6 to 13 July 1, 2013 [77]
Korea (South) 5.50 to 52.2 Jan 14, 2013 [47]
Canada, Quebec 5.41 for the first 30 kWh/day then 7.78 + 40.64/day for subscription fee 2012 [20]
Jordan 5* to 33 Jan 30, 2012 [45]
Uzbekistan 4.95 2011 [85]
Macedonia 4 to 7 Aug 1, 2013 [56]
Serbia 3.93 to 13.48**** Feb 28, 2013 [70]
Surinam 3.90 to 4.84 Nov 20, 2013 [75]
Myanmar 3.6 Feb 28, 2014
Argentina (Buenos Aires) 3.1* 0.86 2006 [2][7]
Venezuela 3.1 at Official exchange rate ( 6.3 Bs/US$) or 0.48 cents at unofficial exchange rate (40 Bs/US$) [86]
Nigeria 2.58 to 16.55 Jul 2, 2013 [62]
Russia 2.4 to 14 Oct 2, 2013 [68]
Pakistan 2.00 to 15.070 May 16, 2012 [63]
Iran 2 to 19 Jul 1, 2011
Bhutan 1.88 to 4.40 0.52 to 1.22 Mar 23, 2012 [12][13]
Ukraine 1.8 to 10.8 2014 [79][80]
Saudi Arabia 1.3 for the first 2,000 kWh/month then to 6.9 Oct 28, 2000 [69]
Kuwait 1 Jun 1, 1966 [48][49]
Egypt 0.7 for the first 50 kWh/Month to 9.6 [29]

 

[buickanddeere]

The only place where solar and wind can make as case is power in remote areas with low loads.
One can make a case for home and industry to use roof mount solar PV's and net metering. This will reduce peak daytime demand on the utility during air conditioner season when PV's work the best.

 

[BobRip]

One thing which will make solar and wind more viable is control of your appliances by the utility. For some things like hot water turn off for a short time, say 15 minutes, this might be very tolerable. They had a program here where they could turn off your air conditioner. They were supposed to only cut it in half. It turns out they would measure your use in the morning and give you half of that in the afternoon. My house has full shade in the morning and sun in the afternoon. So I might have no AC use in the morning and then I would get no AC in the afternoon. They also accidentally disconnected the AC high speed. Anyway, when I had it disconnected the installer said they were disconnecting hundreds of systems a week.

 

[BobRip]

P.S.... My first guess would be a big van following... with a diesel generator... and a long freaking extension cord! :laughing:

Come on, get real. A 50 foot cord would work. They could drive at the same speed.

 

[BobRip]

Come on, get real. A 50 foot cord would work. They could drive at the same speed.

Actually a side car with a generator would work.

 

[Jstpssng]

Actually a side car with a generator would work.

Now you're thinking too much.

 

[BobRip]

Now you're thinking too much.

All the time except when I sleep.

 

[Redneck in training]

One thing which will make solar and wind more viable is control of your appliances by the utility. For some things like hot water turn off for a short time, say 15 minutes, this might be very tolerable. They had a program here where they could turn off your air conditioner. They were supposed to only cut it in half. It turns out they would measure your use in the morning and give you half of that in the afternoon. My house has full shade in the morning and sun in the afternoon. So I might have no AC use in the morning and then I would get no AC in the afternoon. They also accidentally disconnected the AC high speed. Anyway, when I had it disconnected the installer said they were disconnecting hundreds of systems a week.

What will make solar viable is development of economical energy storage either small scale on consumer site or large scale on utility site. In example: Vanadium Flow Batteries | American Vanadium

 

[Tollster]

The simple fact about solar and wind are you cannot turn up the power. On a calm hot day when many turn up the air conditioners the power companies need to produce more electricity....cannot because the wind is not available. When night arrives solar shuts down totally so zero electric from dusk till dawn. Would it not be a better use of money to explore ways of using coal, oil and natural gas that would reduce emissions instead of wasting time and money on wind and solar?

Valid point, but with the government putting tighter restrictions on emissions, it only continues to increase the end cost.
Think of it as a supplemental power source, and as technology improves, perhaps it could be more than that..

That maybe be speculation, but its the same as oil lasting forever..

Don't get choked up on it, its a pill both sides has to swallow.

 

[Loren49]

You are trying to make the case for an energy source that struggles to produce 1% of the power, to power all 100%, if only it would just be embraced. That's laughable, flat earth stuff, tin foil hat stupid. HS

You're making things up again! Your numbers are wrong and there is nothing I have said that could result in anyone with any sense of honesty to imply that I push for 100% wind.

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

In 2013, the United States generated about 4,058 billion kilowatthours of electricity. About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuel (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), with 39% attributed from coal.

In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were

Coal 39%
Natural Gas 27%
Nuclear 19%
Hydropower 7%
Other Renewable 6%
Biomass 1.48%
Geothermal 0.41%
Solar 0.23%
Wind 4.13%
Petroleum 1%
Other Gases < 1%

You're off on wind by more than a factor of 4. Also this struggling(????) source has enjoyed significant increase over the past 14 years. Wind power in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wind power has increased dramatically over the past few years. In 2010, however, new construction was about half of the previous year due to various factors, including the financial crisis, and recession. In 2013 there was a 92% reduction in installed capacity compared to 2012, due to the late extension of the PTC [1] The graph at left shows the growth in installed wind generation capacity in the United States based on data from the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy.[28][29] In 2008, installed capacity in the U.S. increased by 50% over the prior year. The world average growth rate that year was 28.8%.[30]

I have referenced sources that project the max for wind is projected at around 20%. You made up the 100%....you can do better (I hope).


A good read of the posted information may result in a better informed valid rational response. Integrity, honesty, fairness


Loren