So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[buickanddeere]

Most people don't know it but street light were sold to public for improving safety on streets. The real reason was to provide night load for the boilers. Many boilers that run on low quality coal have small turndown ratio. If they need to at less than about 80-90% they have to use "stabilization" by oil or gas to keep the boiler from flame out.
What this country needs is high efficiency primary transmission network capable transferring energy long distances. There are several proposals in design and planning for DC lines. There are several in operation. Some already for about past 50 years. They are cheaper to build because they have only two wires. They can carry large amperage because they don't suffer skin effect. They have no capacitive or inductive losses. The biggest hurdle is converting DC to high voltage for transmission and back to low voltage for distribution to users.
If transmission and storage issues are solved then wind and solar could generate more than 30% of our power consumption. Then we could have large number of electric cars and have power for them.
Another thing about in example solar is that large portion of the investment is made by small investors by installing the equipment on their property. The problem for the utility is that they can't charge for the energy but pay for it. That is why they loobby hard to stop or limit PV. They would rather spend tax payer money and build another generating plant.

That is still a lot of losses and expensive DC lines to power the entire USA from solar panel and mirrored boilers . The most of the arid and desert American south west will be covered with solar PV cells.
This is still the issue of how to power the nation during the 16hrs a day when the sun is low or down.
Nuclear units get real snarly and suffer xenon poisoning when reactivity is reduced. When trying to load follow .

 

[dave1949]

The way I look at it, they are just supplying more reasons for people to go totally off-grid.

Rgds, D.

You are correct. People will start looking at that option a bit harder. Some might just go that way on principle--not liking to get screwed.

 

[Redneck in training]

We will go off grid right after the right technology become available. I think we are almost there.

 

[Redneck in training]

That is still a lot of losses and expensive DC lines to power the entire USA from solar panel and mirrored boilers . The most of the arid and desert American south west will be covered with solar PV cells.
This is still the issue of how to power the nation during the 16hrs a day when the sun is low or down.
Nuclear units get real snarly and suffer xenon poisoning when reactivity is reduced. When trying to load follow .

Total US energy consumption is about 103 000 000 000 000 000 BTU or 30 100 000 000 kWh per year.
So in theory:
It will take square of about 350 time 350 miles at current state of PV technology to generate the same amount of energy. To generate just all electric power will take square about 130 by 130 miles. 13% of energy already generated by renewables will drop the area to about 120 by 120 miles.

 

[slowzuki]

Not sure why so many people seem angry about small electric cars on the road. There is a pile of people who don't drive far. Every time I get gas I watch half the people only put 5$ in the tank, they don't seem to mind the inconvenience of going to the gas station every day.

 

[3930dave]

Not sure why so many people seem angry about small electric cars on the road. There is a pile of people who don't drive far. Every time I get gas I watch half the people only put 5$ in the tank, they don't seem to mind the inconvenience of going to the gas station every day.

Social conditioning.... it works pretty well.....

I can't remember the clinical term for it, but plenty of people have trouble leaving abusive and destructive relationships and will become volatile if constructive suggestions are made in a different direction...

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

True.

Right now Central Maine Power, the electric distributor in much of Maine, has a request before the state PUC to raise their monthly base rate for service from $9.36 to $24, PLUS an additional charge for grid-tied customers because "it costs more to service them." LOL The raised base rate would be offset by lower usage rates for the distribution service. These rates are separate from the the rate paid to the generator/supplier, they cover just the lines, pole, xformers, etc.

The net effect is they will squeeze money out of customers whether they actually use power or not, and the more they use, the cheaper it will be. In other words, punish self-generators like solar pv. Central Maine Power is owned by Iberdola of Spain.

The scum at ALEC (right-wing American Legislative Exchange Council) have a lie PR campaign going that paints solar pv grid-tied users as "free-loaders on the grid."

Dave - do you have a long term contractual obligation to grid-intertie ? If not (actually, given the amount of heifer-dust accumulating, even if I did have a contract), then I'd be pricing out what a suitable battery bank would cost installed in your location.

If dropping grid-intertie went to court, I'd be supplying the utitility related libelous statements and indicate that I was "just being a responsible citizen/ratepayer by removing my house from the grid, as I did not wish to be a burden to society". IMO, it would never make it to court, as the the utilities legal counsel would instantly advise keeping it out of the press.

This thread had me reflecting on the relative simplicity of electric RE today..... it's pretty easy to put a system in place to charge an electric vehicle at home, totally off-grid.

In contrast, even if you own a ton of land in Texas, with your own oil wells..... it's a whole lot tougher refining your own gasoline on site ! (Speaking technically, not even considering the regulatory heifer-dust involved.....).

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

There isn't enough lead, Lithium, nickel and cadmium to backup all American homes and businesses with battery power . There are losses charging and discharging batteries too.
Off grid if fine for cottages, remote rural homes and for tinkerers with deep pockets. Joe Average can't afford to purchase or maintain a battery bank and inverter-chargers.

 

[dave1949]

Dave - do you have a long term contractual obligation to grid-intertie ? If not (actually, given the amount of heifer-dust accumulating, even if I did have a contract), then I'd be pricing out what a suitable battery bank would cost installed in your location.

If dropping grid-intertie went to court, I'd be supplying the utitility related libelous statements and indicate that I was "just being a responsible citizen/ratepayer by removing my house from the grid, as I did not wish to be a burden to society". IMO, it would never make it to court, as the the utilities legal counsel would instantly advise keeping it out of the press.

This thread had me reflecting on the relative simplicity of electric RE today..... it's pretty easy to put a system in place to charge an electric vehicle at home, totally off-grid.

In contrast, even if you own a ton of land in Texas, with your own oil wells..... it's a whole lot tougher refining your own gasoline on site ! (Speaking technically, not even considering the regulatory heifer-dust involved.....).

Rgds, D.

No contract is involved. If I were to switch to off-grid, I would build the system, test it with my main breaker off, and then tell the power co. to disconnect me.

I 'think' I could utilize all the parts of my grid-tied system. If I had a battery based off-grid second system, it should look like the grid to the current system. It would add some complexity to planning the battery charge controller maybe, since the grid-tied inverter would be sending unpredictable amounts of power to it. The maximum is known, so it should be manageable. It would take some research and thinking about.

I have no plans to do that as of now. I doubt the state PUC will rubber stamp the request, they will probably give them something though.

 

[BobRip]

No contract is involved. If I were to switch to off-grid, I would build the system, test it with my main breaker off, and then tell the power co. to disconnect me.

I 'think' I could utilize all the parts of my grid-tied system. If I had a battery based off-grid second system, it should look like the grid to the current system. It would add some complexity to planning the battery charge controller maybe, since the grid-tied inverter would be sending unpredictable amounts of power to it. The maximum is known, so it should be manageable. It would take some research and thinking about.

I have no plans to do tehat as of now. I doubt the state PUC will rubber stamp the request, they will probably give them something though.

At this point you are using the grid as a battery. You seem to be willing to pay for a battery, but not pay the power company to act as a battery. Please explain the logic of this. That being said I would love to see more people off the grid. I don't like a system that so many require to live. But the batteries do cost, take up space, require maintenance and have a limited life.