kensfarm
Veteran Member
It's amazing how many tax dollars we spend supporting the problems alcohol causes.
Sobriety check point, whadda think??
- Thread starter PineRidge
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BillyP
Veteran Member
kensfarm said:
What's more amazing is the amount of money the government/we take in on alcohol sales
Just like tobacco sales. They say they want you to stop using but under their breath they're saying keep it up.
They don't want you drinking and driving but they keep opening bars further away from home
I once read a quote but it has been too long to remember how it went exactly so here goes: "A LIBERAL IS A PERSON WHO HAS NOT YET BEEN ASSAULTED" meaning once a crime touches you, your outlook about thing will change.
First let me say, yes, I am in law enforcement. No, we do not do check points.
Check points remove drunk drivers and other drivers off the road that are a danger to society. A drivers license suspension was done by a judge for some reason; usually drunk driving.
I wonder how many that are opposed to check points in this forum would change their mind if their children, parents, spouse, or close friend were killed by a drunk driver.
I would agree with almost any enforcement that will get those sorry "you know whats" off the road.
I dare anyone on this forum who lost a child to a drunk driver to state they are against check points.
First let me say, yes, I am in law enforcement. No, we do not do check points.
Check points remove drunk drivers and other drivers off the road that are a danger to society. A drivers license suspension was done by a judge for some reason; usually drunk driving.
I wonder how many that are opposed to check points in this forum would change their mind if their children, parents, spouse, or close friend were killed by a drunk driver.
I would agree with almost any enforcement that will get those sorry "you know whats" off the road.
I dare anyone on this forum who lost a child to a drunk driver to state they are against check points.
higgy
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Ok,
I did not loose my wife, but she spent a long time in the hospital, and there are lasting effects to the accident.
I still believe we do not need checkpoints.
It is all about the erosion of rights.
Do I want drunk drivers off the road, yes.
Do I want safety yes.
If a police officer follows me and collects enough for probable cause, pull me over, otherwise leave me alone.
I do not believe that there is a document that states that I have to pull over and let the officer see if there is enough reason.
BTW, have you ever handed out this document that states how many cars will be looked at, how to handle over that amount? Would you give it out if asked, or would it have to be discovered? Would the watch supervisor give this information out? How would the average person find out of the police are using their own program for this. If they are not are they breaking the law and subject to fine?
How many times have you been around a police car that is driving way to fast, talking on the cell phone even though it is illegal in that state etc.
Can you honestly state that ALL people are treated the same as they go through a road block?
As we let our liberties go we should do so with the understanding that they are gone, not on hiatus, not temporary, but gone.
I did not loose my wife, but she spent a long time in the hospital, and there are lasting effects to the accident.
I still believe we do not need checkpoints.
It is all about the erosion of rights.
Do I want drunk drivers off the road, yes.
Do I want safety yes.
If a police officer follows me and collects enough for probable cause, pull me over, otherwise leave me alone.
I do not believe that there is a document that states that I have to pull over and let the officer see if there is enough reason.
BTW, have you ever handed out this document that states how many cars will be looked at, how to handle over that amount? Would you give it out if asked, or would it have to be discovered? Would the watch supervisor give this information out? How would the average person find out of the police are using their own program for this. If they are not are they breaking the law and subject to fine?
How many times have you been around a police car that is driving way to fast, talking on the cell phone even though it is illegal in that state etc.
Can you honestly state that ALL people are treated the same as they go through a road block?
As we let our liberties go we should do so with the understanding that they are gone, not on hiatus, not temporary, but gone.
Highbeam
Super Member
I vote no to checkpoints for such things. It is a waste of my time and an irritation to have to prove that I am innocent. If you want to catch me doing something wrong then you should have to catch me doing something wrong which is why I am also against photo traffic enforcement.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
I have never handed out the plan nor been asked. I pretty sure the watch commander has a copy. The officer in charge of the checkpoint has a copy. Since usually there is a mobile office at the checkpoint to process arrests a copy could be made. Furthermore, like most reports, its a public document that could be requested from HQ.
I am not sure I understand the last two questions. If you mean how would someone find out about the requirements at checkpoints without being arrested/cited? They have to know the law and keep up with the constant changes.
Later,
Dan
higgy
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No exactly what I was asking but close.
If a person at the checkpoint is not following the "rules" of the night, they are breaking their own directions, and should then be subject to adiminstrative action just as most people who do not follow the rules.
I have to admit, I have not always had the best reception when asking for documentation from the police.
Now, don't shoot me either. I am in full support of the police and their function, just play by the same rules the rest of us play by.
If a person at the checkpoint is not following the "rules" of the night, they are breaking their own directions, and should then be subject to adiminstrative action just as most people who do not follow the rules.
I have to admit, I have not always had the best reception when asking for documentation from the police.
Now, don't shoot me either. I am in full support of the police and their function, just play by the same rules the rest of us play by.
Bird
Rest in Peace
I'm not sure I understand all I've read in this thread. So you're opposed to checkpoints, but you want the bad guys off the street, but you don't want anything that will inconvenience you! You want stiff penalties for drunk drivers, but make sure they're caught by some undefined method that you think will work.
And I always love the comments about "entrapment" since it's nearly always a safe bet that the person making the comment hasn't the fainted idea of the legal definition of that term.
As a teenager I was often out late at night. And before joining the police department myself 42 years ago, I used to work a night shift for 3 years, sometimes got off early, so was out on the streets late at night. I have no idea how many times I was stopped by officers who asked to see my drivers license, asked what I was doing out at that time, where I was going, etc. You know I just answered their questions. I was polite and courteous to them, and they were the same to me. And yep, lots of the teenagers complained of being stopped, having their cars searched, being spoken to impolitely, etc. Hmm, wonder why their cars were searched and mine never was. And yep, back then, and even after I joined the police department, any officer could stop any driver any time for no other reason than to ask to see that driver's drivers license. Officers didn't have follow all the rules and plans Dan mentioned back then like they do now, and of course the roads were safer back then.
As for the stiff penalties for drunk drivers, in Texas the second offense can be a felony that gets the drunk driver time in the state penitentiary, but it ain't likely to happen unless that driver is involved in a fatal, or at least very serious, accident. I can remember one drunk driver that I arrested and found that he had 6 previous convictions; must have had a good lawyer because he got off for a $700 fine each time. Another drunk driver that I arrested twice myself, sat in jail 8 months awaiting trial because he couldn't make bail. When he finally came to trial, he was convicted of a felony, sentenced to 8 months in the penitentiary by the judge, given credit for the time he'd served, and sent home.
So you're opposed to checkpoints, but you want the bad guys off the street, but you don't want anything that will inconvenience you! You want stiff penalties for drunk drivers, but make sure they're caught by some undefined method that you think will work. And I always love the comments about "entrapment" since it's nearly always a safe bet that the person making the comment hasn't the fainted idea of the legal definition of that term.
As a teenager I was often out late at night. And before joining the police department myself 42 years ago, I used to work a night shift for 3 years, sometimes got off early, so was out on the streets late at night. I have no idea how many times I was stopped by officers who asked to see my drivers license, asked what I was doing out at that time, where I was going, etc. You know I just answered their questions. I was polite and courteous to them, and they were the same to me. And yep, lots of the teenagers complained of being stopped, having their cars searched, being spoken to impolitely, etc. Hmm, wonder why their cars were searched and mine never was.
And yep, back then, and even after I joined the police department, any officer could stop any driver any time for no other reason than to ask to see that driver's drivers license. Officers didn't have follow all the rules and plans Dan mentioned back then like they do now, and of course the roads were safer back then.As for the stiff penalties for drunk drivers, in Texas the second offense can be a felony that gets the drunk driver time in the state penitentiary, but it ain't likely to happen unless that driver is involved in a fatal, or at least very serious, accident. I can remember one drunk driver that I arrested and found that he had 6 previous convictions; must have had a good lawyer because he got off for a $700 fine each time. Another drunk driver that I arrested twice myself, sat in jail 8 months awaiting trial because he couldn't make bail. When he finally came to trial, he was convicted of a felony, sentenced to 8 months in the penitentiary by the judge, given credit for the time he'd served, and sent home.
higgy
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I agree, being polite in all cases is warrented. It is a hard enough job with out people getting agressive.
This can be taken into other areas of life. In texas you have no P&Z for rural properties and with most posts people from non-P&Z areas say, wow, I'm glad we don't have P&Z here. Well most of those laws are from bad building and people getting hurt or with out homes when they fail. I guess that we should have drive up spot inspectors that can demand to see the engineeing etc. from any construction site. I think that most would not like that either.
I do not have the answers either, but keeping freedom is what this country stands for.
This can be taken into other areas of life. In texas you have no P&Z for rural properties and with most posts people from non-P&Z areas say, wow, I'm glad we don't have P&Z here. Well most of those laws are from bad building and people getting hurt or with out homes when they fail. I guess that we should have drive up spot inspectors that can demand to see the engineeing etc. from any construction site. I think that most would not like that either.
I do not have the answers either, but keeping freedom is what this country stands for.
Ductape
Elite Member
I'm guessing that what Higgy wants to know is..... who is policing the police? If a "plan" is laid out for how to "randomly" check motorisits, every 2nd car... every fifth car, etc., how would anyone know if it is being followed ?? Are we to trust that the brotherhood is going to rat on the brotherhood if three motorists in a row are stopped, when the "plan" is for every other?
It appears that what these "checkpoints" amount to is..... when you are driving home from a friends house or the 24 hr WalMart, you must pull in and PROVE to the police you are innocent of any wrongdoing.... that you don't have a side marker light out, etc. Finding 2 10ths of one percent of all motorists stopped are over the legal limit is not an acceptable return on MY investment.
When i was younger, i may have thought these checkpoints were a great idea. Then again, when i was younger, i really thought that not rain, nor sleet nor snow will stop the postman..... and i thought the police were here to protect me.
Checkpoints where i'm stopped with no probable cause, and where i'm forced to prove i'm innocent of any wrongdoing , is absolutely an erosion of my rights as an american.
In case you haven't guessed..... i'm against sobriety , or any other checkpoints.
It appears that what these "checkpoints" amount to is..... when you are driving home from a friends house or the 24 hr WalMart, you must pull in and PROVE to the police you are innocent of any wrongdoing.... that you don't have a side marker light out, etc. Finding 2 10ths of one percent of all motorists stopped are over the legal limit is not an acceptable return on MY investment.
When i was younger, i may have thought these checkpoints were a great idea. Then again, when i was younger, i really thought that not rain, nor sleet nor snow will stop the postman..... and i thought the police were here to protect me.
Checkpoints where i'm stopped with no probable cause, and where i'm forced to prove i'm innocent of any wrongdoing , is absolutely an erosion of my rights as an american.
In case you haven't guessed..... i'm against sobriety , or any other checkpoints.