Solar power anyone ?

   / Solar power anyone ? #11  
Tn, you got my interest! My place is in Georgia, and I have a south facing slope behind, and on both sides of my house that would be perfect for solar. Mind telling us how much ye system cost? Are batteries just for backup or do you have to have batteries with solar power?

You don't have to have batteries with solar power, but if you are connected to the grid, and the power goes out, the inverters no longer allow power to your outlets. The only way to have solar as a backup is to have batteries if you are grid connected. Batteries add complexity and cost to the system.

How much power you should produce with solar is complicated by state regulations on how you sell the power back to the grid.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Solar power anyone ?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I'd have to go the cheaper and easier plug and play method. Man, I'd have to live about 50 more years to justify $30,000! I might have 20 if I live a long life, probably less. So, I'll probably pass on the solar stuff. Just wont live long enough.

I'm no spring chicken.....was out working on my 3rd array in fall/2011 a couple months after my triple bypass. Hey, you might be surprised and live longer than you planned !

Anyway, TODAY, you can buy a 10.4 kw micro inveter based system for $18,000.....after federal tax credits, you'd be out of pocket bit over 12,000.....and you may have state/local incentives to lower that.
If you did what I did, and used galvanized pipe/angle for your mounting, you could probably cut another thousand off the 18k.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/enphase-solar-power-system.html#Helios
 
   / Solar power anyone ? #13  
I'd have to go the cheaper and easier plug and play method. Man, I'd have to live about 50 more years to justify $30,000! I might have 20 if I live a long life, probably less. So, I'll probably pass on the solar stuff. Just wont live long enough.

I put $30K in my system, but got $ 20K back from the Feds and state. My out of pocket in the end was $ 10K. I have already earned (reduced bill) $ 3K in 21 months.

paul
 
   / Solar power anyone ?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
This a pic of my system after the 3rd array was added ( Nov 2011 )




3 solars and greenhouse.JPG



And this was in June, adding the last 10 panels onto the previous 10, which are ground mounted/fixed, and using the micro inverters.

DSC05058.JPG

DSC05062.JPG


Using the Enphase inverters, you can monitor the power production online, so here is the website where you can see the public side of mine: ( Note: My previous 30 panels don't show on this website right now.....I'm working on a way to incorporate it into that data )

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/4Y8U142036
 
   / Solar power anyone ?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I put $30K in my system, but got $ 20K back from the Feds and state. My out of pocket in the end was $ 10K. I have already earned (reduced bill) $ 3K in 21 months.

paul

Yeah....that's what I mean. Some States have incentives as well as the Federal one.
 
   / Solar power anyone ? #16  
I put $30K in my system, but got $ 20K back from the Feds and state. My out of pocket in the end was $ 10K. I have already earned (reduced bill) $ 3K in 21 months.

Paul, that is the absolute lowest personal investment in a system I've seen to date. Apparently quite a bit of excellent planning on your part, congrats and good job!

My main concern of solar is the longevity and maintenance requirements the system. With the numbers you're talking about, I can see the worth of the investment and research needed to take on such a project as long as the continuing costs of maintaining and refurbishing doesn't increase the cost substantially before the initial can be paid for. I'd like to see some hard stats on such a thing.

Currently my only experience with solar has been a local government department that I work with that had a huge multimillion dollar system installed. Theirs will pay for itself in about 200 years...
 
   / Solar power anyone ?
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I've been operating mine since 2008, with almost nothing in the way of maintenance on the solar part......the trackers have had issues, which is why I went to fixed mounting on the last two arrays. I don't recommend tracking now that panel prices are what they are.
 
   / Solar power anyone ? #18  
Similar track, have any of the current solar users/posters used or considered micro-hydro or wind turbine to augment the solar, are any "off grid" totally ?

Thanks in advance

Rich
 
   / Solar power anyone ? #19  
Right now prices per PV watt are very, very low. This is because of over production, mainly Chinese companies, and lack of demand. EU demand has dropped because of the economy and Spain, which had a very expensive subsidy, had to end the subsidy because they are broke.

So the good news is that PV costs are rock bottom. The problem is which company will be around tomorrow to provide a warranty service? GE just sold its solar business so even big names are not immune to the chaos in the PV market place. On the other hand, the panels will likely work for decades if they last a few weeks, months or years.

Whether solar makes money sense depends not only on Federal and State subsidies but also on state power regulations. In NC, the regulations as written earlier in the year, are such that it is not worthwhile to sell power back to the grid. The regulations require you to pay Time Of Use rates, lock you into certain rate periods, and does not pay much. The class I took early this year and my reading of the regulations say that you should only produce power that you will use and NOT sell back to the grid in NC.

What does that mean in numbers? I have been recording our energy usage day and night. I wish I could easily record what the power usage is from say 1100 to 1600 but I can't. That time period is very important because we only get FIVE hours of power production a day. So if we don't want to give money to Duke Energy, and I certainly do not want to give money to those lying b....ds, we have to have a system that will only produce the power we will use in that time frame. My best guess is that we would not use more than 2-3KW each hour during that time frame on a yearly basis. Lets says we would use 3KW per hour or a total of 15 KWH during that power generation time. We would have to install about 3.75 KW of panels on the roof to get 3KW at the outlets. The extra PV is for power loss in the system.

I can't remember if the yearly average monthly power bill is $120 or $140 so lets call it $130. Power costs us 10 cents per KWH. If we install solar that uses 15KWH per day for 30 days that is $45 a month which is 35% of our average power bill.

I can only guess at the COST of the system but doing some quick searches on the Internet lets say the system would cost at a $2 a watt for the parts and $1 a watt for installation. 3,750 watts * $3 = $11,250. This is grid tie so no batteries.

NC has a subsidy of 35% and Feds have 30% so EVENTUALLY the system would cost me $3,937 so lets say $4,000. Why eventually? Like so many things with solar, the details matter A LOT. NC will give you 35% of the cost of solar but this is gated by how much money one PAYS in state taxes. NC will only rebate in a given year, HALF of what you owe in taxes. So if you owe $2,000 in taxes, they will only pay you $1,000 for the solar subsidy in a given tax year. You can roll this over for either five or seven years.

Installing solar is expensive. You have to have either the cash or the ability to get a large loan to install even a small system that provides a small percentage of your power needs. If the system ends up cost me $4,000, and it saves us $45 a month, it means that the system pays for itself in 7 to 8 years. If there were NO government subsidy the payoff would be 20 years. The lifetime on the panels is around 20-30 years.

The design point was that we would use 3 KWH and thus should produce 3KWH. If we only use 2KWH and produce 3KWH we just gave Duke money.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Solar power anyone ? #20  
Paul, that is the absolute lowest personal investment in a system I've seen to date. Apparently quite a bit of excellent planning on your part, congrats and good job!

My main concern of solar is the longevity and maintenance requirements the system. With the numbers you're talking about, I can see the worth of the investment and research needed to take on such a project as long as the continuing costs of maintaining and refurbishing doesn't increase the cost substantially before the initial can be paid for. I'd like to see some hard stats on such a thing.
.

I have a 25 year warranty on the panels, and a 20 year on the inverter. Panels are Bosch so I expect them to be around for a while. So far the only maintenance has been to mow the grass around the panel array and check the screens (on the airflow path) on the inverter. Since the inverter is in my basement, they are always clean.

paul
 

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