Solar power anyone ?

[dmccarty]

The "powering of a well" Has been shown to be one of the biggest problems. A simple solution is a couple of totes.

View attachment 332190

An easy 300 gallon each solution usually $100 or less.

And as far as running fridges and a few lights a small backup generator does well.

Yeppers, that is why we have a small generator that hooks up the DR brush cutter engine. Water is a concern and there are hand pumps that work on deep wells but they are EXPENSIVE. We also put in an 80 gallon H20 heater which we can tap for water when needed. 80 gallons is a bunch of drinking water. The generator is really for the fridge, freezer and microwave though the generator will run our well pump.

Later,
Dan

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Yeah, that federal "credit" was all the tax payers chipping in to pay for your so-called-green solar power system.

 

[NorTracNY]

Yeah, that federal "credit" was all the tax payers chipping in to pay for your so-called-green solar power system.

Yes, Thank you all! I feel bad for those people that don't have the right layout to have them. NYS made it a no brainer to get panels last year.

 

[TnAndy]

Yeah, that federal "credit" was all the tax payers chipping in to pay for your so-called-green solar power system.

Well, given 50% of the folks in this country pay no federal income taxes, I assume we're only talking about the other 50%. Maybe complaining about that clear inequity ought to be the order of the day.

And unless we go to a complete no credits/no deductions type income tax, there are always going to be those that say "yeah, the taxpayers are paying for your (whatever)". I could make the same complaint about deductions for kids. We have none, so why should I pay for somebody else's kids. Or mortgage interest deductions....I don't have a mortgage......and so on.

The FACT is the feds DO put these things in the tax code, stupid as many of them are, and they ARE available to anyone that goes the route of qualifying for them, so if you have a problem with me taking advantage of a provision in the tax law, write your Congress Critter.

Otherwise, it sounds a whole lot like your grapes have soured.

 

[NorTracNY]

Well, given 50% of the folks in this country pay no federal income taxes, I assume we're only talking about the other 50%. Maybe complaining about that clear inequity ought to be the order of the day.

And unless we go to a complete no credits/no deductions type income tax, there are always going to be those that say "yeah, the taxpayers are paying for your (whatever)". I could make the same complaint about deductions for kids. We have none, so why should I pay for somebody else's kids. Or mortgage interest deductions....I don't have a mortgage......and so on.

The FACT is the feds DO put these things in the tax code, stupid as many of them are, and they ARE available to anyone that goes the route of qualifying for them, so if you have a problem with me taking advantage of a provision in the tax law, write your Congress Critter.

Otherwise, it sounds a whole lot like your grapes have soured.

You're absolutely right. If the government sees it in the best interest to aid/support/encourage then it should, but it should have a clear reason for doing so. If it wants to diversify the energy production of country great, but let's have these credits end after a given time period, so it takes work of the politicians to restore them. Is it in the national interest to have so many of the current credits? Absolutely not. But the government does have to "support" some industries at some times. It is a weapon that other governments can use, so we need to be able to handle it. Look into the mining of rare earths if your not familiar with one attack China carried out.

 

[Pieter78]

I thought this was about solar power ?

 

[Depmandog]

I don't have any info on the circuitry or what happens if a cloud passes over, for example.

It's a brand new product that may not be shipping yet.

SUNNY BOY 3000TL-US / 4000TL-US / 5000TL-US. SMA America, LLC

Total solar newb...

Would it be practical to have a grid tied solar array for daily use AND a small 3000 watt solar / battery system powering a dedicated receptacle for power outages? Not enough to run the whole house obviously, but you could run an extension cord - couple hours for the freezer, couple hours on the fridge, microwave / tv / lights as needed.

Appreciate the thread. Thanks all who has posted.

 

[dave1949]

Total solar newb...

Would it be practical to have a grid tied solar array for daily use AND a small 3000 watt solar / battery system powering a dedicated receptacle for power outages? Not enough to run the whole house obviously, but you could run an extension cord - couple hours for the freezer, couple hours on the fridge, microwave / tv / lights as needed.

Appreciate the thread. Thanks all who has posted.

I think TnAndy has something like that set-up according to his posts. I guess the practicality depends on your overall needs (your power requirements, etc.) and how often and for how long do you lose power.

Personally, I find the combination of a grid-tied system coupled with a backup gas generator more practical. Something like a Honda EU2000 or larger would be useful for outages and portable power all the time. During an outage I need to run my well pump and water heater, at least enough to get by. I have a 6500 watt generator.

Since the generator is a totally separate unit with no dependency on any part of the solar system, it is going to work if something critical/single point of failure in the solar set-up fails.

Not to be morbid, but another consideration for those of us who are getting on in years, is what type of set-up could your widowed wife deal with or easily get assistance on?

 

[TnAndy]

Total solar newb...

Would it be practical to have a grid tied solar array for daily use AND a small 3000 watt solar / battery system powering a dedicated receptacle for power outages? Not enough to run the whole house obviously, but you could run an extension cord - couple hours for the freezer, couple hours on the fridge, microwave / tv / lights as needed.

Appreciate the thread. Thanks all who has posted.

That is what I have, though slightly larger.

I started with a grid tied, battery backup system that I expanded in stages from 2.1kw to 6kw (panel rating), with 5000w of inverter ( twin Outback 2500w that produce a true 240v ) power.....then added another 5kw of grid tie only using Enphase micro inverters.

I've been the route of using generator for grid down situations....got a 5,000w Coleman, and an 8,000w side of my Miller Bobcat welder......And as long as you're talking a short period ( like maybe up to a week or two ), that certainly is a cheaper way to go. Even then, fuel can become an issue for some folks ( I do store quite a bit of fuels in farm tanks )


But what I was looking for was more of a "what if the grid goes down for a long time, or maybe forever" situation, which is why I went solar......and given the rate structure HERE, and the tax credit, solar makes more sense to me....here....but that IS area dependent.

 

[dmccarty]

Total solar newb...

Would it be practical to have a grid tied solar array for daily use AND a small 3000 watt solar / battery system powering a dedicated receptacle for power outages? Not enough to run the whole house obviously, but you could run an extension cord - couple hours for the freezer, couple hours on the fridge, microwave / tv / lights as needed.

Appreciate the thread. Thanks all who has posted.

As part of the class I took earlier in the year, we toured a house that the instructor built. He built a bunch of homes in a development that where all of the homes had PC, solar water heaters, and passive solar design. The homes had small PV systems, 2-3KWH, and batteries wired for certain circuits in the house. The owner said there have been power outages and he had not noticed for a few hours because his main circuits were working off battery.

The solar was well integrated into the houses and the houses looked like normal subdivision houses except for the roof panels. The houses were quite expensive though.

Later,
Dan

 

[Depmandog]

Thanks guys for the posts. TnAndy, apologize I didn't catch that your system was what i was referring to. Remember, I am a Newb, so at times reading these posts it's like reading a foreign language HAHA

 

[sld]

We tend to get large hail at times. How much abuse can these panels take usually?

 

[ultrarunner]

My electrical averages 11kw per day and does not vary much year round by more than 15%

Seems I don't use enough to make the numbers work... home is 2300 square feet of 1950's construction with no energy upgrades like dual pane windows or applicances... Freezer, Washer, Dryer date from the 1960's.

The companies that advertise Solar beat a quick retreat when they see my usage.

 

[dave1949]

My electrical averages 11kw per day and does not vary much year round by more than 15%

Seems I don't use enough to make the numbers work... home is 2300 square feet of 1950's construction with no energy upgrades like dual pane windows or applicances... Freezer, Washer, Dryer date from the 1960's.

The companies that advertise Solar beat a quick retreat when they see my usage.

The numbers may not work for their business model but solar electric costs are relatively linear. There just isn't much difference in the cost of the first kW and the last kW.

My usage averages 14-15 kWh per day and the numbers work from my perspective as the owner. The installer has up-front fixed costs to cover, so I can see how doing a $15K job versus a $40K job makes a difference to their numbers.

 

[ultrarunner]

One home in the area is covered in panels... we just couldn't understand the pay back...

After the place was foreclosed... found out the owner had a sophisticated grow operation.

 

[catfishdaddyengineering]

Sunny Boy (SMA America) now has a line of string inverters that will produce up to 1500 watts (at a dedicated outlet connected to the inverter) while the grid is down, and of course the sun is shining.

Outback and a couple others now offer a "grid-interactive" central inverter. It is a bus-bar based inverter that has a separate relay for the grid-tied line. If utility power is lost, this relay opens to disconnect from grid, but the home is still fed on the "backup" breaker panel from solar panels and/or batteries. They have smaller inverters in GT/GV series, but their Radian series has dual AC input where you can connect generator to charge batteries in event of low solar output while disconnected from grid. This beats having to buy two inverters to accomplish the same thing.

Outback Power Inc. - Grid-Interactive

 

[dave1949]

Sunny Boy (SMA America) now has a line of string inverters that will produce up to 1500 watts (at a dedicated outlet connected to the inverter) while the grid is down, and of course the sun is shining.

Outback and a couple others now offer a "grid-interactive" central inverter. It is a bus-bar based inverter that has a separate relay for the grid-tied line. If utility power is lost, this relay opens to disconnect from grid, but the home is still fed on the "backup" breaker panel from solar panels and/or batteries. They have smaller inverters in GT/GV series, but their Radian series has dual AC input where you can connect generator to charge batteries in event of low solar output while disconnected from grid. This beats having to buy two inverters to accomplish the same thing.

Outback Power Inc. - Grid-Interactive

That's interesting and sounds useful.

I wonder if it is necessary to do some manual demand management when used without batteries? For example, if a well pump and the water heater cycles at the same time, in many grid-tied systems that combined demand would exceed the momentary solar PV output, and the grid back-fills the deficit. With no grid power and no batteries, I wonder how this works out?

 

[TnAndy]

With no grid power and no batteries, I wonder how this works out?

It doesn't.

All off grid systems ( and the 'normally' grid tied hybrid ones, like the Outback ) HAVE to have batteries to work. Otherwise, a passing cloud would put you out of power. SunnyBoy's new inverter seems to be the one exception to that, though it's use would appear limited to non-motor type uses....where that 'passing cloud' effect wouldn't matter too much.

The new Radian inverter that Outback makes now is simply a combination of what I have......2 GTFX inverters ( 120v each on separate phases ), and a Hub ( that co-ordinates the phasing ) in a single package with more inverter power ( I think they are 8,000watts )

 

[TnAndy]

My electrical averages 11kw per day and does not vary much year round by more than 15%

Seems I don't use enough to make the numbers work... home is 2300 square feet of 1950's construction with no energy upgrades like dual pane windows or applicances... Freezer, Washer, Dryer date from the 1960's.

The companies that advertise Solar beat a quick retreat when they see my usage.

Simply means you'd need a smaller system. Using micro-inverters, which mount one per panel, you could start with a few panels, and keep expanding until you hit your usage, and knock out your bill. The micro inverter system is about as close to "plug and play" as it gets !

 

[TnAndy]

We tend to get large hail at times. How much abuse can these panels take usually?

We haven't had more than 1/4" hail on ours, which did nothing. They are tempered glass on them, but my guess is something like baseball sized would put you in a world of hurt.