Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

[buickanddeere]

Wow interesting thread. Purchasing a solar system will come down to your personal situation. Anyone that talks about subsidies and whether something is truely "green" really is ignoring the reality of our convoluted economy with government intervention. I have a PV system that was a steal because of the silly interference of the government. I have a guarenteed rate of return that any investor would jump at. I thank all the tax payers in my state and country when they ask about my system. BUT, if anyone thinks the real cost of gas is just what they pay at the pump, then they are delusional. If anyone thinks that nuclear energy is "cheap" they don't understand the cost of storing something dangerous for 50,000 years. If they think of hydro-electric as free and not hurting anything, they don't know what Niagara Falls looked like before the generators.

I have nothing against any of these forms of energy. I do believe that diversity is important. Adding solar to existing coal burning plants actually makes sense. The solar produces peak energy where as the plant needs to be built for maximum usage which comes in the middle of the day. Let's not attack one source just because it isn't green, it isn't currently as cheap as X, or it can't do Y. Technology advances should be encouraged and we should DEFINITELY not assume we pay the real cost of any of these when we buy them for our personal usage.

And again, thank you for my PV system.

Solar output starts dropping fast after 3:00PM . What carries that peak utility grid load from 3:00PM until late evening ?
What about cloudy days and short winter days
?

 

[buickanddeere]

Wow interesting thread. Purchasing a solar system will come down to your personal situation. Anyone that talks about subsidies and whether something is truely "green" really is ignoring the reality of our convoluted economy with government intervention. I have a PV system that was a steal because of the silly interference of the government. I have a guarenteed rate of return that any investor would jump at. I thank all the tax payers in my state and country when they ask about my system. BUT, if anyone thinks the real cost of gas is just what they pay at the pump, then they are delusional. If anyone thinks that nuclear energy is "cheap" they don't understand the cost of storing something dangerous for 50,000 years. If they think of hydro-electric as free and not hurting anything, they don't know what Niagara Falls looked like before the generators.

I have nothing against any of these forms of energy. I do believe that diversity is important. Adding solar to existing coal burning plants actually makes sense. The solar produces peak energy where as the plant needs to be built for maximum usage which comes in the middle of the day. Let's not attack one source just because it isn't green, it isn't currently as cheap as X, or it can't do Y. Technology advances should be encouraged and we should DEFINITELY not assume we pay the real cost of any of these when we buy them for our personal usage.

And again, thank you for my PV system.

Solar output starts dropping fast after 3:00PM . What carries that peak utility grid load from 3:00PM until late evening ?
What about cloudy days and short winter days
?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Wow interesting thread. Purchasing a solar system will come down to your personal situation. Anyone that talks about subsidies and whether something is truely "green" really is ignoring the reality of our convoluted economy with government intervention. I have a PV system that was a steal because of the silly interference of the government. I have a guarenteed rate of return that any investor would jump at. I thank all the tax payers in my state and country when they ask about my system. BUT, if anyone thinks the real cost of gas is just what they pay at the pump, then they are delusional. If anyone thinks that nuclear energy is "cheap" they don't understand the cost of storing something dangerous for 50,000 years. If they think of hydro-electric as free and not hurting anything, they don't know what Niagara Falls looked like before the generators.

I have nothing against any of these forms of energy. I do believe that diversity is important. Adding solar to existing coal burning plants actually makes sense. The solar produces peak energy where as the plant needs to be built for maximum usage which comes in the middle of the day. Let's not attack one source just because it isn't green, it isn't currently as cheap as X, or it can't do Y. Technology advances should be encouraged and we should DEFINITELY not assume we pay the real cost of any of these when we buy them for our personal usage.

And again, thank you for my PV system.

My cost lowering ideas of alt energy are getting complicated by the pattern emerging in western states charging a surcharge on people contributing to their local power grid making alt. energy more costly than conventional energy. Watch the Bloomberg video.

Musk vs. Buffett, a Solar War in the Desert Heats Up - Bloomberg Business

And California too:

Desperate California Utilities Win Effort to Squeeze Money Out of Solar Customers

Both of these stories are from just last week.

 

[NorTracNY]

Solar output starts dropping fast after 3:00PM . What carries that peak utility grid load from 3:00PM until late evening ?
What about cloudy days and short winter days
?

Please explain with data. My panels are producing peak power around 3-4pm as they are orientated slightly to the West. They do not "start dropping fast after 3pm." Energy usage varies with season, time of day, geographical region, etc... I believe mid-day on a hot summer day is the peak for many, but haven't verified. I'm not sure if you're asking a question or attacking a form of energy. If you're attacking solar PV then you should be pointing out that hot PV produce less energy. I've found that my peak instantaneous production will occur on a cold sunny day in March/April.

 

[NorTracNY]

My cost lowering ideas of alt energy are getting complicated by the pattern emerging in western states charging a surcharge on people contributing to their local power grid making alt. energy more costly than conventional energy. Watch the Bloomberg video.

Musk vs. Buffett, a Solar War in the Desert Heats Up - Bloomberg Business

And California too:

Desperate California Utilities Win Effort to Squeeze Money Out of Solar Customers

Both of these stories are from just last week.

That is an interesting development that I've also heard about. I know when I looked into panels years ago when I got mine that things were messed up then to. In CA, people would break even with their power company if their panels would produce just 50-60% of their usage! It was because their panels were producing the most energy when the company was charging/paying the most for it. In NY, I'm paid retail for the energy. That makes no sense. Why would a company producing a product (electricity), pay another smaller producer retail price for it?

 

[buickanddeere]

Please explain with data. My panels are producing peak power around 3-4pm as they are orientated slightly to the West. They do not "start dropping fast after 3pm." Energy usage varies with season, time of day, geographical region, etc... I believe mid-day on a hot summer day is the peak for many, but haven't verified. I'm not sure if you're asking a question or attacking a form of energy. If you're attacking solar PV then you should be pointing out that hot PV produce less energy. I've found that my peak instantaneous production will occur on a cold sunny day in March/April.

I am asking what is the source of power during the late afternoon to evening peak when the sun is weak? What is the source of power when the sun is low, weak sun November to Febuary , overcast and when covered with snow?
Where would wind and solar be without the rate payer and the tad payer subsidizing their rates ?

 

[NorTracNY]

I guess my 1st post wasn't clear. There are many sources of power during the late afternoon to evening and at night. I'm sure you know this, so I'm not sure what you're really asking. Wind and solar would be expensive like every other form of energy without significant government intervention.

I originally thought you were commenting about this part of what I wrote. "Adding solar to existing coal burning plants actually makes sense. The solar produces peak energy where as the plant needs to be built for maximum usage which comes in the middle of the day." But now I really have no clue. Sorry. If you're just attacking solar, then I'll let someone else have that discussion with you. I thought my first post was clear. Sorry.

 

[MossRoad]

...If you're attacking solar PV...

... If you're just attacking solar,...

You guessed correctly...

 

[buickanddeere]

Is there some way to state my experience and knowledge in the power generation and transmission industry without somebody being offended by the laws of physics, battery technology etc ?

 

[k0ua]

Is there some way to state my experience and knowledge in the power generation and transmission industry without somebody being offended by the laws of physics, battery technology etc ?

I just want to know how that free energy stuff works:laughing: (tongue in cheek of course)