Split rim Wheels

[Eric_Phillips]

Since this has to do with my manure spreader I posted in this forum. I took the wheels off the manure spreader and got some new tires. I pulled this spreader out of my wife's uncle's place and the tires are rotted. So I have two questions. Any thoughts on good ways to cut off the old tires? They are bias ply tires. Once I get them off I want to clean up the rims before putting the new tires on. Is there a way to get the split ring off the rim with out killing myself or having special tools? I have never worked with split rims before so any help would be appreciated. My goal is to get the rust off and repaint them. just to try to make them last longer.

 

[Eagleview]

Have a look at the current thread " mounting a tire " you should find all the tips you need . If the tyre still wont come off you may need to buy a 4" carbide tipped saw blade to fit a 4" angle grinder or use a hacksaw and cut it off . Make sure you use the grinder gaurd , eye and ear protection and heavy gloves . The only thing you need to be very cautious of is the steel wire in the beads , i'd suggest you use a thin fibre cutting wheel for these , be very carefull and try not to damage the rim .

 

[Rara Avis]

This thread...
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/121186-mounting-tire.html

 

[Eric_Phillips]

Thanks,
I just read through that thread and they mostly talked about normal rims. I have split rims that Iron Horse and Bird mentioned a couple times. I tired asking this same question in that thread. Hopefully one of those two can help.

 

[MikeD74T]

Eric, Foremost -what you might not know about split rims can kill you!!! If you've asked around you know almost no tire shop will touch a split rim these days. However you can change them safely. Once fully deflated the rings should pry off with a little effort & 2 pry bars. If necessary the tires can be cut off with a sawsall & metal cutting blades.
Clean the rims well, mount the tires, & put the rings back on. THIS IS THE DANGEROUS PART. Split rims should only be inflated in a special purpose cage. If the ring unseats during inflation it is lethal and often fatal. Lacking a cage you can wrap the tire & rim in multiple locations with chain and lay ring side down to inflate, keeping in mind you could still injure or loose a hand if you put it in harm's way. Use safety wire to ensure the chain hooks remain engaged. After inflated whack the ring a few times with a hammer before removing the chain.
Dangerous tasks can be performed safely with knowledge & forethought, this is a dangerous task. MikeD74T

 

[Eagleview]

Can you post a picture as there are many types . If it just has a ring with a split section you will find it has a small notch on one end of the ring . After the bead is broken using a large chisel and hammer or simillar (if its not already broken) Place the blade of a tyre lever or large screwdriver in this notch . Pry the notch out of the rim groove by levering the screwdriver towards the center of the rim (You must ensure the lip on the ring is not catching on the tyre by stepping on the sidewall). Put another screwdriver in the gap you have created a little further along from the other and do the same as before . Remove the first screwdriver and do the same proceedure again and again untill the ring is off . If the tyre is stuck to the rim you may need to cut it off like i said . If the rust does not need sandblasting use a wire wheel on a drill and clean all the rust off . You can use a product called POR15 i think thats what it's called , others on the forum will know , then use a good quality metal primer and paint ..... Mike was typing a little faster than me . As he said be carefull if you decide to refit and inflate the tyre yourself .

 

[herringchoker]

Eric, as others have said, split rims can be lethal...so plan ahead and be very careful.

Check out this site for safety and procedures:
Accuride Corporation: All Around Leader in Wheels

In section XI, on pages 1 and 2 you will find procedures for demounting and mounting tires on two different types of split rims.

 

[Eric_Phillips]

Here are a couple pictures of the wheels. This looks like a solid ring that goes around the rim. I don't see how it comes off. Do you think the rust looks too bad or are they worthy of being cleaned up?

 

[tommu56]

Eric_Phillips

As one who has broken a hand inflating a tire!

Those don't look look like any split ring type tires Iv'e worked on.

They look more like split rim but those didn't have a center in them like yours.

Before you cleen them up find some one that can mount them so you dont waste your time.

I would really sugest replaceing them with drop center rims check out the junk yards for used ones .

tom

 

[Bird]

Here are a couple pictures of the wheels. This looks like a solid ring that goes around the rim. I don't see how it comes off. Do you think the rust looks too bad or are they worthy of being cleaned up?

If that ring had a break in it, and the notch mentioned by Iron Horse, it would be the "split ring" I've been thinking you had; i.e., the same as I had on my 1971 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup. And of course that's not what you have. Now I can't say for sure, but I think what you have to do with the ones you have is to push one side of that ring down into the "well" near the center of the wheel, then pry it off starting on the side opposite the one you pushed down into the well. In other words, you actually deform it temporarily from being perfectly round. And you remove that ring about the same way you would remove a tire from a normal wheel. While it isn't really necessary to cut the tire off first, it would make it a bit easier to push one side down into the well.

 

[Eagleview]

Whats on the reverse side of the rim Eric ? A 100 years ago i saw a rim with 2 sets of rings . The solid ring dropped on first which became the inner bead , then the tyre and then the split lock ring which formed the outer bead . As for the condition of the rims , from the photos they look in VGC .

 

[Stimw]

That's not a split rim, I think it was called a "two piece rim". Once you break that rim down you can remove the ring by prying it into an oval and off the main rim.
It's probably a little safer that a split rim but the mating edges must be in good condition.
Your best bet would be to find an old tire man and let him look at it and give you an opinion. Most tire places won't touch any of the old rims anymore because of the liability. The old style split rims are now illegal for trucks and trailers on the road and most DOT's even inspect for them.

 

[gemini5362]

ihave a trailer with split rims is almost impossible to get them worked on. I would measure the bolt pattern and see if i could find a non split rim to replace them. trying to put new tires on without the proper knowledge or more importantly the right equipment is such a safety risk as to be litterally risking your life. there are a lot of dead and maimed people who tried wrapping chans around them or something equally stupid when trying to inflate them with the new tire. watch the care someone takes that knows how to do it and has the correct safety cage to do it in

 

[QRTRHRS]

I changed a good many split rings way back when including the "two piece" style. Though I have known people who were killed by them, I never had a problem nor did I use a cage.

Sure, I probably would have used a cage had they been available but things were not alway so "rosy". Let's just say if you did not want the job, someone else would and there were not always better places to go.

I was taught to gently seat the ring(s) with a hammer while inflating without the stem. And no, I never stood over the wheel while inflating one. I was not that stupid!

I heard of the cages containing wheel explosions. I often wondered if that was due to the wheel being in a vertical position rather than flat and the ring being lopsided?

 

[Eagleview]

[QUOTEgemini5362]= . there are a lot of dead and maimed people who tried wrapping chans around them or something equally stupid when trying to inflate them with the new tire.

I look forward to you showing us the documents or even an internet link that will back this statement up .

 

[Rara Avis]

Take it to your tire shop and let them do it...easier and safer...

And you can spend your time playing with your tractors...

 

[Eric_Phillips]

I had fun lastnight trying to get the old tires off. I took a reciprocating saw with a hack saw blade to one tire and cut around the sidewall on each side. I then took a couple crow bars and removed the cutoff. I then took some snips to cut off the rim flap. Interesting that I could cut the rim flap with snips but the tube would not cut. I then tried taking the saw to cut off the rest of the tire but the beads were still stuck on the rim and I couldn't get a good angle to get the tire fully cut off. I looked around wondering what I could use to get the beads unseated. Finally looked at the tractor with a loader. I pulled out the wheel with the intact tire since I thought I was going to have problems pushing on the little flap left on the tire I cut off. I took what I think is an old tractor or implement weight and put it on one side of the rim and pushed down with the front edge of the loader on the tire on the opposite side. I worked my way around both sides and it looked like it loosened the tire from the rim. I then tried the one where I had cut off the tire. That actually worked very easily and the leftover ring of tire slipped off into the well. Then I cut off the other tire and noticed all the previous work was no good since the rim flap wouldn't let the tire fall into the well so out came the tractor again. I did finally cut through the bead with the saw on one wheel, that was a lot of work just to do that. I then gently took my small sledge and knocked the rust off the inside of the rim next to the ring. I will try to take some pictures tonight. I am having a bad feeling now looking inside the rims. I will try to get the ring loose and cleaned up. I did find a truck tire place in town that will work on split rims. Once I get them cleaned up I will be taking the rims to them to see what they say and if all is OK I will have them mount the tires. I have no desire to try mounting these myself.

 

[gf5205]

About 4 years ago I had a similar problem with a manure spreader. One wheel had been replaced with a split rim and the tire went flat. I bought a new rim and had the split rim cut off of the disc of the old wheel and the new rim welded to the disc. Works great!
Greg

 

[gemini5362]

[QUOTEgemini5362]= . there are a lot of dead and maimed people who tried wrapping chans around them or something equally stupid when trying to inflate them with the new tire.

I look forward to you showing us the documents or even an internet link that will back this statement up .

Well lets see I did a quick scan of google with the words split ring accidents for the search and seemed to see several examples. Would you like me to cut and paste them here or would you be willing to try the same search I did ?


Not posted on the internet is the couple of service station owners I knew when I was growing up that had them blow up in their faces. One only spent several weeks in the hospital and then months getting surgery on his face trying to fix all the broken bones. The other died. I also know that all the small places around me that are hustling trying to make a living wont touch them. One place I finally found would do them but they were not really happy about it and they had all the safety equipment. The cage, a special adapter that they used to fill up the tire with that had the valve about three feet from the end of the nozzle. If you cannot do a google search let me know and I will be glad to cut and paste some of the sites for you.

 

[gemini5362]

I had fun lastnight trying to get the old tires off. I took a reciprocating saw with a hack saw blade to one tire and cut around the sidewall on each side. I then took a couple crow bars and removed the cutoff. I then took some snips to cut off the rim flap. Interesting that I could cut the rim flap with snips but the tube would not cut. I then tried taking the saw to cut off the rest of the tire but the beads were still stuck on the rim and I couldn't get a good angle to get the tire fully cut off. I looked around wondering what I could use to get the beads unseated. Finally looked at the tractor with a loader. I pulled out the wheel with the intact tire since I thought I was going to have problems pushing on the little flap left on the tire I cut off. I took what I think is an old tractor or implement weight and put it on one side of the rim and pushed down with the front edge of the loader on the tire on the opposite side. I worked my way around both sides and it looked like it loosened the tire from the rim. I then tried the one where I had cut off the tire. That actually worked very easily and the leftover ring of tire slipped off into the well. Then I cut off the other tire and noticed all the previous work was no good since the rim flap wouldn't let the tire fall into the well so out came the tractor again. I did finally cut through the bead with the saw on one wheel, that was a lot of work just to do that. I then gently took my small sledge and knocked the rust off the inside of the rim next to the ring. I will try to take some pictures tonight. I am having a bad feeling now looking inside the rims. I will try to get the ring loose and cleaned up. I did find a truck tire place in town that will work on split rims. Once I get them cleaned up I will be taking the rims to them to see what they say and if all is OK I will have them mount the tires. I have no desire to try mounting these myself.

Personally I think that is a smart decision not trying to do it yourself. One of the reasons that a local tire guy gives for not doing them is becase they are not made any more and the ones you can get are old and often times rusty and he is worried about them breaking when he is putting them back together. Like I said in an earlier post I would see if I could get different rims that are not split rims. Measure the bolt pattern and the center hole and look on ebay for one place to try and maybe local tire shops or salvage yards. Including a tractor salvage yard if you have one locally. I bought a dump trailer and it was made from a early 60s model ford 1 ton rear end. It has a 5 hole bolt pattern for the dually rims. Those rims are all split rims. I did a very exhausting search just to find one to replace a rim I had bent. The next time I need tires on it I am considering just scrapping the whole axle and buying a new one so that I can get non split rims. If the one guy in a 100 mile radius quits doing split rims I am going to be out of luck totally so I figure just change over next time I need to change tires.